WELD/SUTTON DIRT MISSILE build

[DBasher]

The lowers are fully adjustable....not needed for the top mount? I’ve been taught (by you) everything in Ron’s world is adjustable....this, changes, everything.🙃

Thank you for sharing all of this, it’s not everyday I get to see what goes into building a car at this level.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-it

Hey Ron, It looks like the rear lower control arm mounts are slotted? How does that set up work and what purpose does the adjustability serve? Excuse my ignorance......

Hey Ahmad ! Most people outside of racing don't know why we do it.

By the way, we only slot the front lower link mounts on the crossmember. The lowers are pushing under acceleration, so the slot is not at risk of pulling out. The forces under decel are not as hard on it. We slot them to get the lower links perfectly level with the car at the desired ride height & rake. When the lower link are level (regardless of upper link angle) the car has zero rear steer during roll. That's how we start all of our clients.

Then if they need a little extra help turning on some crazy tight AX courses, They can adjust the front of the links up some ... creating "positive rear steer" ... and helping the car to turn better. This is at a cost of some rear grip under throttle, so we don't want to do it if it's not needed. On road courses, or super fast open road races like Silver State, Big Bend (which our client Tom Whelen won both at 204 & 205 mph averages) we can do the opposite. By lowering the front of the lower links, we're creating "negative steer" ... which adds rear grip the faster you go through corners. The downside is it doesn't turn tight as well.

So the slots are just a tuning tool to make sure we're neutral rear steer, positive or counter ... as we need.

P.S. ALL RSRT 3-Links & Torque Arms come with these slotted brackets for the lower links.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by DBasher

The lowers are fully adjustable....not needed for the top mount? I’ve been taught (by you) everything in Ron’s world is adjustable....this, changes, everything.��

Thank you for sharing all of this, it’s not everyday I get to see what goes into building a car at this level.

Too funny.

Frankly, in the lower links, we usually just level them & forget them. We only adjust the fronts to change rear steer when needed. See my answer above to Ahmad's question.

On the Decoupled 3-link, I've found we like the Decel link (the top one that is a double adjustable gas shock) around 15°. I hate to say this, but it IS a RONCO oven. Set it ... and forget it. The angle anyway. We do fine tune the shock valving with knobs on the console. When the driver is on the straights, they can reach down & grab a handful of rear grip (or less grip). One knob fine tunes rear grip on corner entry. The other knob fine tunes rear grip on corner exit.

Now the Accel link ... the lower of the V-link assembly ... gets fine tuned often. That's why we don't use HOLES in brackets. Too coarse of a change. That steel jack screw assembly the Accel link is bolted to on the chassis goes up or down 4" ... with the turn of a knob. It's just behind the main hoop, in the cockpit, so it's NOT adjusted on track. We call this our "Quik-Tune" assembly because it takes seconds to adjust it. We simply adjust it down (clockwise) for more rear corner exit grip ... and up (counter clockwise)for less.

Other than the setup we put on the car in the shop ... without changing any parts on the car ... we have a total of 20 areas of quick, easy, track tuning ... 14 in the rear & 6 in the front. So your world is safe big guy !!!

[carbuff]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

Hey Ahmad ! Most people outside of racing don't know why we do it.

By the way, we only slot the front lower link mounts on the crossmember. The lowers are pushing under acceleration, so the slot is not at risk of pulling out. The forces under decel are not as hard on it. We slot them to get the lower links perfectly level with the car at the desired ride height & rake. When the lower link are level (regardless of upper link angle) the car has zero rear steer during roll. That's how we start all of our clients.

Then is they need a little extra help turning on some crazy tight AX courses, They can adjust the front of the links up some ... creating "positive rear steer" ... and helping the car to turn better. This is at a cost of some rear grip under throttle, so we don't want to do it if it's not needed. On road courses, or super fast open road races like Silver State, Big Bend (which our client Tom Whelen won both at 204 & 205 mph averages) we can do the opposite. By lowering the front of the lower links, we're creating "negative steer" ... which adds rear grip the faster you go through corners. The downside is it doesn't turn tight as well.

So the slots are just a tuning tool to make sure we're neutral rear steer, positive or counter ... as we need.

P.S. ALL RSRT 3-Links & Torque Arms come with these slotted brackets for the lower links.

Hey Ron,

I actually read Ahmad's question as referring to the rear link on the FRONT LCA that is slotted. I'll try to link the correct image below. Even if that wasn't his question, I am curious about why you do that.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by carbuff

Hey Ron,

I actually read Ahmad's question as referring to the rear link on the FRONT LCA that is slotted. I'll try to link the correct image below. Even if that wasn't his question, I am curious about why you do that.

Good question. Bob asked a little while back, so I posted the answer to his question on page 16 in post #151. (Go HERE)

I am copying it here again.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Panteracer

Ron,
Just noticing in the pictures that the anchor points for the upper and
actually lower a-arms are slotted. There seems to be a labeled washer
or insert that you can move the a-arm anchoring points up or down in
the slot. I assume this is a piece that holds the anchoring bolt to a
certain height... are there different height inserts or are you just sliding
the anchor bolt up and down??

I ask this because someone else doing a second gen was moving his lower anchor points up or down based on info you gave him by welding a washer
in at a certain height... seems like the race cars with slotted anchor points
let you adjust this with the slot or inserts.. kinda of a trick thing if I am
thinking right

Bob

Great question Bob!

On our Track-Warrior front clips ... all 4 versions ... the LCA & UCA brackets have slots for our slugs. When I designed each of these front suspensions, I made them so we can build them "semi-custom" for each customer, with different ride heights, frame widths, etc. I placed the slots in a location that allows me use precision slugs to optimize each semi-custom front frame & suspension.

The precision slugs are on page 188 of our catalog HERE. We have "0" slugs to put the LCA or UCA pivot in the center, and then offset slugs every 1/16" ... up to .250". This allows me to dial in the exact roll center, camber gain, anti-dive, etc I want on each front suspension.

When we're correcting the geometry in a factory frame or front clip, I don't use the slugs. It is so hard to get them right ... when we make changes ... I don't want the lower pivots to be adjusted or moved after I've nailed down where they go. So in these cases, I prefer & recommend we simply weld thick, hardened washers to the outsides of the LCA buckets ... in the correct location ... and call it good.

[jlwdvm]

Are you going to have to tweak the DBW pedal and brake pedal to make heel-n-toe easier? I would imagine the Wilwood brake pedal position is adjustable? I have stock 69 F-body pedals and the same DBW pedal. At the moment, my gas pedal is too high when I'm on the brake.

[Ron Sutton]

Originally Posted by jlwdvm

Are you going to have to tweak the DBW pedal and brake pedal to make heel-n-toe easier? I would imagine the Wilwood brake pedal position is adjustable? I have stock 69 F-body pedals and the same DBW pedal. At the moment, my gas pedal is too high when I'm on the brake.

Heel & Toe? It's a sequential transmission, so no need to heel & toe.

But in any other situation, you'd be right. We always put the pedals where the driver wants.

[jlwdvm]

Maybe I should switch out my T56 Magnum for one of those...it might be easier than modifying my pedals! Speaking of trans, will you do anything to the exhaust pipes that run right along the trans to decrease heat transfer? I'm sure you will be running a trans cooler, but that looks like it would fry the trans.

[Blake Foster]

Originally Posted by jlwdvm

Maybe I should switch out my T56 Magnum for one of those...it might be easier than modifying my pedals! Speaking of trans, will you do anything to the exhaust pipes that run right along the trans to decrease heat transfer? I'm sure you will be running a trans cooler, but that looks like it would fry the trans.

yea that trans was only 25,000.00 plus all the install.

[gofastwclass]

Originally Posted by jlwdvm

Maybe I should switch out my T56 Magnum for one of those...it might be easier than modifying my pedals! Speaking of trans, will you do anything to the exhaust pipes that run right along the trans to decrease heat transfer? I'm sure you will be running a trans cooler, but that looks like it would fry the trans.

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

yea that trans was only 25,000.00 plus all the install.

What a bargain!

I actually looked up the sequential shift T-56 when it was first mentioned in this build and thought I read the price incorrectly until I saw it several times on their site.

For my budget I'll be breaking out the fabrication tools.