Shooting in Connecticut

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

If some looney-toons wants to - he could easily kill all the kids and teachers in two or more classrooms of kindergarten and first graders with a friggin' baseball bat!

What's a bunch of kindergarten kids going to do to an adult bent on committing mayhem (sorry Stielow!)? ZERO...

The whole raging gun debate is just that - a raging debate. It solves absolutely nothing.

Today we read about a whack job ex con killing volunteer firefighters... It never stops. His gun was ILLEGAL! Does he care about laws? He killed his own grandmother with a f'n' hammer! Laws mean nothing to people like this.

Until people of the world get that, there's not much to talk about.

Greg you have a solid point. The paper laws are written on does nothing to stop a criminal. In this case of the gun debate, it's the lawful citizens who are being punished. For what? Criminals always look for an opportunity and an easy target. Someone who is aware and prepared is a deterrent.

I recall seeing in one of Todds posts that a person with a hand gun can't defend against an attacker with an Assault Rifle. At a distance that's true. Not so much in a close quarters environment. It was mentioned that the female Principle of the school lunged to stop the attacker. She was close enough to engage the shooter (regardless of what type of firearm he had) to engage him. Same with the CCW holder in the OR mall shooting. Two similar, yet very different situations. The Principle most likely had a better chance of success (wasn't there, so I can't say for sure). The CCW guy at the mall, made a wise choice knowing that the chances of collateral damage was much higher.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Greg you have a solid point. The paper laws are written on does nothing to stop a criminal. In this case of the gun debate, it's the lawful citizens who are being punished. For what? Criminals always look for an opportunity and an easy target. Someone who is aware and prepared is a deterrent.

I recall seeing in one of Todds posts that a person with a hand gun can't defend against an attacker with an Assault Rifle. At a distance that's true. Not so much in a close quarters environment. It was mentioned that the female Principle of the school lunged to stop the attacker. She was close enough to engage the shooter (regardless of what type of firearm he had) to engage him. Same with the CCW holder in the OR mall shooting. Two similar, yet very different situations. The Principle most likely had a better chance of success (wasn't there, so I can't say for sure). The CCW guy at the mall, made a wise choice knowing that the chances of collateral damage was much higher.

The VOCAL minority will clamor -- and the SILENT majority (some 60% of homes in America have guns) will be silent...

This is all about the non gun people rising up and using any "evidence" they can to press their case/advantage... and we the silent people will probably just sit back and let them because we won't want to offend anyone.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The VOCAL minority will clamor -- and the SILENT majority (some 60% of homes in America have guns) will be silent...

This is all about the non gun people rising up and using any "evidence" they can to press their case/advantage... and we the silent people will probably just sit back and let them because we won't want to offend anyone.

That has been the case in the past, but I'm under the impression that more and more gun owners are becoming more vocal. My wife has her CCW and is active on a few forums for gals that carry. She's shared more than a few stories of situations where a gal was forced to use her firearm to protect her self. The main purpose is bring awareness and educate the members of that community. Often those people who have had to use their weapon in self defense don't want to talk about what happened, but that's changed with all the anti gun talk against lawful citizens. They are starting to talk more openly about what happened, bringing the positive side of firearm ownership into the main stream. The media of course doesn't want to hear it, good news doesn't sell. Neither do the hard core anti gun types. It's a slow change, but a welcome one. Theirs nothing like learning from someone who's been there and done that.

I'll say it again. Education is the key.

[IMPALA MAN]

I think more accountability would also help....in some cases. It's already been established that these deranged people in many cases want attention as long as they can get it. If they were to be held accountable...on the spot, they may rethink their actions.
Check out this story: (the short of it)
Man beats girlfriend.
Grandfather tells boyfriend to stop.
Boyfriend decides to attack grandfather.
Grandfather shoots boyfriend.
Boyfriend dies.
Police file zero charges.
Result...accountability mucho tax dollars saved.
The guy probably didn't do it for attention, but I guarentee, he was held accountable.
http://www.courierpress.com/news/201...in-front-yard/

Today when little Johnny doesn't listen in school, it's a disease. Everything is a disease's fault instead of the persons fault. I too had a listening problem when I was a child. My father had an "over the household" cure. He kicked my ass until I listened. He held me so accountable that it only took one ass kicking to cure my "disease". And he didn't even go to med school!

[Ketzer]

Originally Posted by IMPALA MAN

Today when little Johnny doesn't listen in school, it's a disease. Everything is a disease's fault instead of the persons fault. I too had a listening problem when I was a child. My father had an "over the household" cure. He kicked my ass until I listened. He held me so accountable that it only took one ass kicking to cure my "disease". And he didn't even go to med school!

There are a lot of legitimate medical conditions. There are also some pretty significant learning disabilities in some kids. Some cannot be cured with boot to butt. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with the point you are trying to make. A halfway decent parent can cure 99.9% of all these "syndromes" with a little bit of attention and a lot of discipline. I thank my mom today for the a$$whippings I got and know I should have gotten many more. Kids desperately need rules, accountability, and respect for others.



Jeff-

[Vegas69]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

Greg you have a solid point. The paper laws are written on does nothing to stop a criminal. In this case of the gun debate, it's the lawful citizens who are being punished. For what? Criminals always look for an opportunity and an easy target. Someone who is aware and prepared is a deterrent.

I recall seeing in one of Todds posts that a person with a hand gun can't defend against an attacker with an Assault Rifle. At a distance that's true. Not so much in a close quarters environment. It was mentioned that the female Principle of the school lunged to stop the attacker. She was close enough to engage the shooter (regardless of what type of firearm he had) to engage him. Same with the CCW holder in the OR mall shooting. Two similar, yet very different situations. The Principle most likely had a better chance of success (wasn't there, so I can't say for sure). The CCW guy at the mall, made a wise choice knowing that the chances of collateral damage was much higher.

It definitely wasn't me that made that statement. An educated and trained individual with a hand gun has a very good chance of ending the life of an individual with an assault rifle. In close quarters and that's exactly what a school promotes.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Ketzer

There are a lot of legitimate medical conditions. There are also some pretty significant learning disabilities in some kids. Some cannot be cured with boot to butt. That being said, I wholeheartedly agree with the point you are trying to make. A halfway decent parent can cure 99.9% of all these "syndromes" with a little bit of attention and a lot of discipline. I thank my mom today for the a$$whippings I got and know I should have gotten many more. Kids desperately need rules, accountability, and respect for others.



Jeff-

I don't remember ANY kids in my schools with learning disabilities growing up. I was in school in the 50's & 60's. Graduated HS in 1971. If you were a problem in class - you were sent to the Principals office... if you were a real problem - you probably got "spats" with a board! You spent time after school in a room by yourself or with other problem children that day. Trust me - I was one of those.

It wasn't until my son was finally diagnosed with A.D.D. that I discovered I also had that. It explains a few things looking back. BUT -- I never had meds - and I got a good education. I didn't hate school nor did I hate the teachers. I missed a bunch of critical "points" that I later had to go back and figure out... but when you're an adult - you can think about what parts are missing and take corrective action. If you are a responsible person and want to actually succeed.

My son graduated College... and his A.D.D. is way worse than mine! Neither of us is A.D.H.D (the hyperactive version - even though Charley calls me the Tasmanian Devil ).


We were taught RESPECT! And there was a price to be paid if you weren't respectful! That respect was to be shown to EVERYONE including your fellow classmates. You could learn that the easy way - or through the seat of your pants.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The VOCAL minority will clamor -- and the SILENT majority (some 60% of homes in America have guns) will be silent...

This is all about the non gun people rising up and using any "evidence" they can to press their case/advantage... and we the silent people will probably just sit back and let them because we won't want to offend anyone.

I feel we are better prepared and educated since the last ban. With sites like Calguns.net and its legal backing I envision a long battle. Advantage goes to pro-, better funded and ready for the fight. Historically the anti's are under funded, devotion to fight is limited and often react too late. Point, the original assult weapons ban expired years ago...banned guns have been in circulation for 7 years. They react now.

another factor....
"Gun rights groups have given more than $17 million in... contributions to federal candidates and party committees since 1989. Nearly $15 million, or 85 percent of the total, has gone to Republicans. The National Rifle Association is by far the gun rights lobby's biggest donor, having contributed more than $14 million over the past 15 years.

"Gun control advocates... contribute far less money than their rivals -- a total of nearly $1.7 million since 1989, of which 94 percent went to Democrats."

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I don't remember ANY kids in my schools with learning disabilities growing up. I was in school in the 50's & 60's. Graduated HS in 1971. If you were a problem in class - you were sent to the Principals office... if you were a real problem - you probably got "spats" with a board! You spent time after school in a room by yourself or with other problem children that day. Trust me - I was one of those.

It wasn't until my son was finally diagnosed with A.D.D. that I discovered I also had that. It explains a few things looking back. BUT -- I never had meds - and I got a good education. I didn't hate school nor did I hate the teachers. I missed a bunch of critical "points" that I later had to go back and figure out... but when you're an adult - you can think about what parts are missing and take corrective action. If you are a responsible person and want to actually succeed.

My son graduated College... and his A.D.D. is way worse than mine! Neither of us is A.D.H.D (the hyperactive version - even though Charley calls me the Tasmanian Devil ).


We were taught RESPECT! And there was a price to be paid if you weren't respectful! That respect was to be shown to EVERYONE including your fellow classmates. You could learn that the easy way - or through the seat of your pants.

Its tough, everything is very sensitive. Now the government has a say on how you will raise your child. Time outs? Go to your room? are you serious? I would have loved a time out growing up.

Recently a teacher was fired for locking a child in a room for acting out and hitting a fellow student. Schools getting sued for verbal abuse when a teacher confronted a child who was cussing at other students.

respect starts at home and some kids are not getting it.

[GregWeld]

What kind of law is going to protect ANYONE from this nut job? Seriously....




Spengler killed himself as seven houses burned around him.



Earlier, police said Spengler had left a three-page typewritten note saying he wanted to burn down the neighborhood and "do what I like doing best, killing people".

[Vince@Meanstreets]

they might ban fire. stocking up on matches and flint sticks.