'65 Fastback project

[GrabberGT]

I've been keeping my eyes open for a new power plant myself. Eventually, I'll learn to drive the 347 I've got now and will be looking to upgrade. The Coyote 5.0 is tempting with its OEM reliability, weight and power potential. Especially with the stroker 347/351 packages coming out. But Packaging is a HUGE hurdle for those of us not looking to completely start over with a new front clip. Why couldn't Ford keep the size down to something we could use. The LS is tempting but as has been stated already doesn't fit and everybody is doing it. A thought I have come up with but not researched is a short stroke LS. Build the 5.0 Ford should have. It may not stable, reliable, or cheap but would definitely be fun.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by GrabberGT

I've been keeping my eyes open for a new power plant myself. Eventually, I'll learn to drive the 347 I've got now and will be looking to upgrade. The Coyote 5.0 is tempting with its OEM reliability, weight and power potential. Especially with the stroker 347/351 packages coming out. But Packaging is a HUGE hurdle for those of us not looking to completely start over with a new front clip. Why couldn't Ford keep the size down to something we could use. The LS is tempting but as has been stated already doesn't fit and everybody is doing it. A thought I have come up with but not researched is a short stroke LS. Build the 5.0 Ford should have. It may not stable, reliable, or cheap but would definitely be fun.

I remember hearing about the sleeved/stroked packages for the Coyote last year, but I haven't seen anything since. When I was doing the latest incarnation of my 454 LS engine, I asked Steve Dimerjian about the sleeved Coyote blocks, and he wasn't sure they had worked all of the issues out yet. I do think a stroked Coyote would be the best of both worlds. I would build one in a heart beat if I didn't think I would be a guinea pig for durability testing. N/A Coyote motors pull hard above 4000rpm and really sing between 5000-7500. Which for isn't what I want in a dual purpose car. Bigger cubes from a bigger stroke like in the 5.4 would really help with the torque. You to need to gear the Coyotes aggressively like DSE did on their test car, but then you lose some of the easy going highway street manners. The blower cars have a better power band, but when I drove one, the power came on so strong at about 3000rpm that it felt a little like an on off switch. I'm sure you could get around that with different cams, and slightly more aggressive gearing, but the point I'm trying to make is that right now is that the only smooth mod motor I've driven (4.6 3v, 5.0, 5.4) with a flat torque curve is the blown 5.4 and that is simply to big a motor to put in a little '65.

The problem I keep having in making a decision is whether I want the simplicity and flat torque curve of a 400 plus cube Windsor, or the technological benefits of a blown Coyote. Both would weigh about the same, with the Windsor being the better track motor, and the Coyote being the better street motor.

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

I remember hearing about the sleeved/stroked packages for the Coyote last year, but I haven't seen anything since. When I was doing the latest incarnation of my 454 LS engine, I asked Steve Dimerjian about the sleeved Coyote blocks, and he wasn't sure they had worked all of the issues out yet. I do think a stroked Coyote would be the best of both worlds. I would build one in a heart beat if I didn't think I would be a guinea pig for durability testing. N/A Coyote motors pull hard above 4000rpm and really sing between 5000-7500. Which for isn't what I want in a dual purpose car. Bigger cubes from a bigger stroke like in the 5.4 would really help with the torque. You to need to gear the Coyotes aggressively like DSE did on their test car, but then you lose some of the easy going highway street manners. The blower cars have a better power band, but when I drove one, the power came on so strong at about 3000rpm that it felt a little like an on off switch. I'm sure you could get around that with different cams, and slightly more aggressive gearing, but the point I'm trying to make is that right now is that the only smooth mod motor I've driven (4.6 3v, 5.0, 5.4) with a flat torque curve is the blown 5.4 and that is simply to big a motor to put in a little '65.

The problem I keep having in making a decision is whether I want the simplicity and flat torque curve of a 400 plus cube Windsor, or the technological benefits of a blown Coyote. Both would weigh about the same, with the Windsor being the better track motor, and the Coyote being the better street motor.

I forgot to include the link to the 351 info:

http://www.stangtv.com/tech-stories/...er-351-coyote/

This one is at the top of my list so far. Just needs a trick EFI setup.

http://ford.shafiroff.com/ford_crate...clevor_hhr.php

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

I remember hearing about the sleeved/stroked packages for the Coyote last year, but I haven't seen anything since. When I was doing the latest incarnation of my 454 LS engine, I asked Steve Dimerjian about the sleeved Coyote blocks, and he wasn't sure they had worked all of the issues out yet. I do think a stroked Coyote would be the best of both worlds. I would build one in a heart beat if I didn't think I would be a guinea pig for durability testing. N/A Coyote motors pull hard above 4000rpm and really sing between 5000-7500. Which for isn't what I want in a dual purpose car. Bigger cubes from a bigger stroke like in the 5.4 would really help with the torque. You to need to gear the Coyotes aggressively like DSE did on their test car, but then you lose some of the easy going highway street manners. The blower cars have a better power band, but when I drove one, the power came on so strong at about 3000rpm that it felt a little like an on off switch. I'm sure you could get around that with different cams, and slightly more aggressive gearing, but the point I'm trying to make is that right now is that the only smooth mod motor I've driven (4.6 3v, 5.0, 5.4) with a flat torque curve is the blown 5.4 and that is simply to big a motor to put in a little '65.

The problem I keep having in making a decision is whether I want the simplicity and flat torque curve of a 400 plus cube Windsor, or the technological benefits of a blown Coyote. Both would weigh about the same, with the Windsor being the better track motor, and the Coyote being the better street motor.

At least you're THINKING! I like that part!


I like big inch small blocks --- and stick some 8 stack efi on it and it would have instant throttle response - it would look kool and then you could be like other kool guys that I can think of on here.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

At least you're THINKING! I like that part!


I like big inch small blocks --- and stick some 8 stack efi on it and it would have instant throttle response - it would look kool and then you could be like other kool guys that I can think of on here.

I would be kool? You mean like Rodger? He had stacks on his truck. I talked with him at Good Guys last weekend, and he's pretty Kool, with a capital 'K.' Although, now he is talking about LSA crate engines, and billet stuff. I seem to recall one other kool guy, but his name escapes me at this time.

[fleet]

Here's some fairly recent discussion on the 351 Coyote idea...

http://www.modularfords.com/f17/bada...coyote-188737/

[GrabberGT]

Originally Posted by compos mentis

Here's some fairly recent discussion on the 351 Coyote idea...

http://www.modularfords.com/f17/bada...coyote-188737/

You know. I followed this link to the thread and read thru it. Then I noticed the dates on the posts. Thinking I was smart, I was about to post that the news you had was old but then I check the article I posted only to find it was older still. (6/11) Oddly enough, this article was just sent to my email via Stang TV. They must be recycling old articles.

So now back to the Windsor block. Just keep the weight low on the car and go 351 block based stroker.

[preston]

Yeah I got excited about my Turbo Coyote idea and started doing research. I got stuck on the fact that my 427, any 427, is making 400+ rwftlbs + by 3k rpm. The Coyote is only making 300 rwftlbs and the boost doesn't come up until after that. They don't really start matching the big motor until 4k+. I guess that's where the heat pump style blowers shine, will need to see blown Coyote dyno graph. So for me I can't see giving up that 3k rpm hit of torque. I just need to keep working with engine guys to try to get mine to the streetable OEM type performance I want. I'm as die hard as any of you about keeping a Ford motor but paying the $3k premium for the Al block is a killer when even the base LS motors are all alum blocks, and OEM to boot.

Although there are some interesting new heads coming out like the TrickFlow R11 and the Kaase P-38 which may mean big step ups in performance for the Windsor.

And have you guys seen how much power the guys are making and holding with the 5.3 junkyard LS motors ? $1k for the motor, home built turbo system and BIG POWA. Kind of makes you feel chumpy for spending thousands on a motor build. If they blow it up, they just go get another junkyard truck motor and good to go.

[Flash68]

Matt... quit thinking so much... just make something happen... and deal with it (fix it) later.... life's more interesting that way.

Just have a Stone IPA (or better yet a Pliny) or 3 and the answer will just pop in your head.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by preston

Yeah I got excited about my Turbo Coyote idea and started doing research. I got stuck on the fact that my 427, any 427, is making 400+ rwftlbs + by 3k rpm. The Coyote is only making 300 rwftlbs and the boost doesn't come up until after that. They don't really start matching the big motor until 4k+. I guess that's where the heat pump style blowers shine, will need to see blown Coyote dyno graph. So for me I can't see giving up that 3k rpm hit of torque. I just need to keep working with engine guys to try to get mine to the streetable OEM type performance I want. I'm as die hard as any of you about keeping a Ford motor but paying the $3k premium for the Al block is a killer when even the base LS motors are all alum blocks, and OEM to boot.

Although there are some interesting new heads coming out like the TrickFlow R11 and the Kaase P-38 which may mean big step ups in performance for the Windsor.

And have you guys seen how much power the guys are making and holding with the 5.3 junkyard LS motors ? $1k for the motor, home built turbo system and BIG POWA. Kind of makes you feel chumpy for spending thousands on a motor build. If they blow it up, they just go get another junkyard truck motor and good to go.

Preston, I don't have a graph on hand, but I remember seeing a comparison between a GT and GT500 both with Kenne Bell twin screws. The 5.0 in the GT killed the GT500 for peak power numbers, but keep in mind, it is a much higher compression motor than the GT500's mill. Down low, the GT500 had the edge, and it wasn't until the 5.0 Coyote was fed 15lbs of boost that it started putting out healthy amounts of low end torque.

Dave, I've got a bunch of Ballast point brews in the fridge, but they are all IPAs and I'm getting tired of IPAs. That is all anyone drinks in California anymore. I sipped on a nice stout while looking at small block Fords the other day. Did you know an aluminum 8.2" deck block only weighs 80ish lbs?? Maybe I should...no. Nevermind. I'm not going to say anything else. Don't want to have to explain why I changed my mind again.