What happened to the 69 DSE Car?

[CAMAROBOY69]

Its great to hear Stacy is ok. Time to run the roll bar from the firewall to the front for some extra support in case this happens again. I was actually surprised they didnt already have a full roll bar in this car.
Its also awesome she was able to get in the top 4 out of 78 cars. Thats something to be proud of for sure.
And for those that mentioned insurance, most dont cover auto X or road track events. At least not any in my area.

As mentioned above, you should always be prepared for brake failure or WOT. Always have that in the back of your mind and be ready to respond instantly. I actually had this happen in my driveway this weekend with the Mustang. I was just driving up and down the driveway and when I went to go forward the throttle stuck almost wide open! I slammed the brakes and hit the shifter into neutral. Could have been a disaster. Just always keep that in mind and be prepared for it. And build your cars in preparation for an accident.

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by CAMAROBOY69

And for those that mentioned insurance, most dont cover auto X or road track events. At least not any in my area.

I believe they were speaking of event insurance and not car insurance.

[James OLC]

Originally Posted by ModernMuseum

Umm..yeah, the photos of the wreckage are on DSE's web site.

Props to DSE for posting them there.

As I said - "The Tucker's don't seem to have any issues telling the story though"...

[CAMAROBOY69]

Yup accidents happen and as I said you should build your cars to be prepared for the accident. Especially the interior to protect the driver and passengers.

There is no reason at all for anyone to try and "hide" what happened. In fact they should do an article about this to help others learn about safety while building their cars. They could go in detail about the speed of the accident, the parts damaged, and how well the interior safety equipment held up. We always read about the builds and the money put into the cars but an article about the damage from an accident, and the areas to reinforce would be a great read for the majority of the community.

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Yep, you have a split second to react in these tight venues. A stuck throttle or a loss of brakes and you're screwed. At a local SCCA event, a throttle stuck on a miata and ended up a set of steps and almost through a building. The whole self tech thing is a load of bull sheet. EVERYBODY shoudl be subject to an inspection by a knowledgable racer with tech experience. If nothing else, two sets of eyes are always better than one.

Guys, we are hauling ass in these protouring cars. Every time I get out on the road course, I"m reminded of the importance of quality parts and maintenence. These aren't factory engineered cars. Things do work there way loose and wear out prematurely. We are pushing these things to the max!

Not to get way off track here but I'm a HUGE fan of self tech sheets. I also believe in personal responsibility and Darwinism. I look my car over every time I take it out to make sure it is good. I find lose bolts all the time. I re-torque all my critical fasteners, check brake pads, and just look the car over after every track event. This winter I’ll pull the engine, trans and diff to have them checked out. If my car breaks it is my fault! Not some clip board totting tech guy that did not see my rear caliper bolt was finger tight.

I love events like the last one I went to at Gingerman. The registration and Tech process took 2 minutes. I paid my money signed the drivers sheet, turned in my “self” tech sheet the tech guy looked at my helmet and I was done.

I also believe many of this “Pro-Touring” Auto-Xs are a little dangerous and sold as “safe”. There have been a number of incidents at Goodguys events and some at shoot-outs. I think there have been more cars damaged Auto-Xing than doing the road course stuff.

Auto-Xing is great! I started out Auto-Xing due to the fact it was cheap and attainable. When I work with new people we always start out Auto-Xing. It is where we are going to get new people participating in events. So we should attempt to make them fun and as safe as possible.

One thing we could do is communize our rules to make it easier for new people. Goodguys event allow 180 tread wear and Optima events want 200 as an example. It would be very nice if this winter some of the major players got together and set common set of rules.

Back to the DSE Car. Stacy is a very good driver and all their cars are prepared top notch. She was unhurt because they have good cars with good safety equipment. I have seen a couple DSE front sub-framed Camaro involved in accidents and the sub-frames showed great toughness in absorbing the impact. I’m very happy she is OK and the car is on the mend and I’m sure the Blue ‘69 DSE test car will be back on track with Stacy at the wheel soon.

Mark

[Vegas69]

My only counter to that Mark is the fact that not all involved in this hobby are GM engineers or master techs like myself. Some rarely turn their own wrench or pop the hood except to puff out their chest. While a majority are capable of teching their own cars, I still think an SCCA type tech improves safety even if it prevents one accident.

[wmhjr]

Originally Posted by James OLC

As I said - "The Tucker's don't seem to have any issues telling the story though...". There is, however, a lot of effort being being made by others to minimize discussion about the incident.

There are good reasons for this also. I recognize that there are pros and cons to release of some information, however IN GENERAL (to be clear, not making any statements about this event) once things get out in the public domain there is no longer any control, and it is getting more and more difficult to satisfy event insurance, liability, legal, and venue restrictions. Problem is that on the web things tend to spiral out of control and often out of context - and in some cases this could result in less events being possible. It's all well and good when things are discussed here. Right up until the point where the underwriter discovers a thread and refuses future liability coverage. Then we'll be reducing the number of (well run) events rather than increasing them. Just something to think about.

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by wmhjr

There are good reasons for this also. I recognize that there are pros and cons to release of some information, however IN GENERAL (to be clear, not making any statements about this event) once things get out in the public domain there is no longer any control, and it is getting more and more difficult to satisfy event insurance, liability, legal, and venue restrictions. Problem is that on the web things tend to spiral out of control and often out of context - and in some cases this could result in less events being possible. It's all well and good when things are discussed here. Right up until the point where the underwriter discovers a thread and refuses future liability coverage. Then we'll be reducing the number of (well run) events rather than increasing them. Just something to think about.

Exactly. When the promoters can't get insurance and the events are cancelled, where will we all be? Remember, a lot of these events were started to give all of us a venue to have SAFE fun with our vehicles with out having to build race cars. I've done that, that is not what my Dad and I are in this for. But, we would like to be able to drive it hard in a controlled atmosphere. As Mark said your safety is mainly your own concern. I also agree with Todd. Some out there have more money than knowledge. That is where a good tech official can help. Part of safety also is knowing what your vehicle is capable of and knowing it's limits. This whole subject in my opinion has the potential to ruin this Pro-Touring "movement" if you will. If this can not be worked through, there are going to be a ton of 6 figure race cars for the street that don't have a sand box to play in. Chances are they will not meet any sanctioning body rules completely and there won't be enough to create a class. Who's ready to to put their 150K Camaro on the track wheel to wheel instead of against the clock?
Just my .02!

[SLO_Z28]

People are making this seem like a car tech, or self preparation problem, it isn't. This collision occurred at RTTH7 autocross. Here is a video of the event:

Parts of that make me CRINGE. This autocross should have never happened, the course wasn't safe, and the venue wasn't adequate for the type of course. This should have never been run to begin with, and it was only a matter of time until something of this nature occurred.

To give the entire story since everyone is beating around the bush here, the event promoter is Bill Howell. Bill started a thread on Pro Touring about how he knew that these cars, and courses were unsafe, and that we might need to require more rules, and better safety equipment. He then later deleted the thread, I'm assuming so that when something like this happened the insurance carrier wouldn't see that he had concerns, and he could limit his liability.

I think this falls into the 6P's category. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. In this case someone with experience, such as a SCCA steward, could have drastically changed this course, or even ruled the venue inadequate and prevented this entire thing.


To be fair, Bill did promote the RTTC2 event that I went to, and the courses were exceptionally well designed. The autocross and road course both were safe, fun, and challenging.

[57hemicuda]

Is everyone forgetting what we are doing here, racing is not for the faint of heart. If this stuff scares you, take up knitting. I ran the event, there was nothing unsafe about it. Stacy is an EXCELLENT driver, and Detroit Speed builds the best equiptment on the market. Unfortunatly, if you push the car hard enough, sooner or later your going to go off road. That's racing. Ron