Would You Pay For This?

[Bad94]

Tim, Im game. I did a 10/10th event in Oct, and had Danny Popp, as my instructor, what a track day that was. Im doing another in April.


I feel that whoever puts a event on needs to have the drivers list the tracks they have driven on. And if you have never been on a road course, before you can go out by yourself a instructor has to go with you.

I was on a road course this year with a newbie and he was all over the place had no idea where to place the car, when to brake. I finally pulled in pit road and restarted to get away from him.

I was off track more in 2013 then I ever want to be, I had a few close calls with a tire wall and fence. But that's lack of seat time.

[TheJDMan]

It appears to me that we are almost talking about two completely different types of events. Anytime an event organizer sets up an event format where a winner is determined, that is what I would describe as a competition event. On the other hand, if an event is designed to teach performance driving which is what we are discussing here. I would call that a Driving School.

I don't think a competition event and a driving school should be run concurently as the competition side will be a distraction to the driving school and vise versa. I feel very strongly that the ultimate safety device in any car is the driver and anything that can be done to enhance the drivers skill, knowlege and confidence is a worthy endevor.

The bottom line is this. I would like to see dedicated driving school events seperate from competition events. I understand that funds are tight which is exactly why I have not been able to attend a Bondurant or Barber caliber driving school. I think this would be a viable cost effective alternative learning event geared specifically to the guys like me who build and drive on a budget. The net result is that drivers get better, safer and more competent and to me that is a big win for everyone.

I view this whole safety discussion as an indication that the Pro-Touring movement is maturing and I see driving school events as a great sponsorship opportunity for any manufacturer involved in SEMA.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by TheJDMan

It appears to me that we are almost talking about two completely different types of events. Anytime an event organizer sets up an event format where a winner is determined, that is what I would describe as a competition event. On the other hand, if an event is designed to teach performance driving which is what we are discussing here. I would call that a Driving School.

I don't think a competition event and a driving school should be run concurently as the competition side will be a distraction to the driving school and vise versa. I feel very strongly that the ultimate safety device in any car is the driver and anything that can be done to enhance the drivers skill, knowlege and confidence is a worthy endevor.

The bottom line is this. I would like to see dedicated driving school events seperate from competition events. I understand that funds are tight which is exactly why I have not been able to attend a Bondurant or Barber caliber driving school. I think this would be a viable cost effective alternative learning event geared specifically to the guys like me who build and drive on a budget. The net result is that drivers get better, safer and more competent and to me that is a big win for everyone.

I view this whole safety discussion as an indication that the Pro-Touring movement is maturing and I see driving school events as a great sponsorship opportunity for any manufacturer involved in SEMA.

You can do both at a single event we've done it many times with the Get Started Racing Schools for auto-x. The track rental is so expensive that I think it will have to be done in conjunction with the events for it to be viable. The run groups will just be separated into instructional and solo. I don't see it as any different than what is done now to match up groups of people with like skills.

[GregWeld]

Tim --

People have NO IDEA what it costs to rent these tracks per day…. They'd be blown away if they had any clue.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

Ben, I don't think anyone should be excluded at all, I'm trying to do the opposite and figure out what makes financial sense for everyone involved (participants, sponsors, and promoters). This thread has more to do with the road course than auto-x since the speeds are lower for auto-x the risks are far lower. If you think you can get to 10-15 minutes of tips from someone and you are ready for a road course you are sadly mistaken. I think the real answer to this is going to be several classes for different levels of skill and car so everyone can play. We need to address peoples driving skills as part of an overall safety plan before the unthinkable happens. I've been on track at these events and had people do some pretty stupid stuff in front of me either from driving over their head or from plain just not knowing any better.

Perhaps I should have made it more clear that my thoughts were more directed at autoX rather than road course, as that's where I'd feel I'm better suited to drive. Until I had some driving instruction, I don't think really pushing my car on a road course would be a good idea, and I have no shame in admitting that. I think it's always a good idea for one of the rules at an event is don't be an idiot, we're all adults and it's ok to drive at your real driving level, you're not here to impress anyone. Honestly I'd be scared having more experienced cars and drivers flying up on my tail at 150 mph, and would feel more at home on the track with folks at my level. I'm sure those more experienced drivers feel the same.

I agree, 10-15 minutes isn't enough info to go nuts out, that isn't what I was suggesting. But for a guy that just wants to take a few laps at a little less speed, a simple conversation might do? You guys know Jay, our driver for the Speedtech Nova. A simple conversation with him over dinner totally changed the way I drive for the better. Just a few tips on what to and what not to do made a huge difference. That's what I am talking about here.

I've been on the road course At Miller Motorsports park's "Wide Open Wednesday" twice with my car, probably never got above 90 mph and had a blast. They do this every month, invite the general public out to put their street cars on the race track and they don't give you any instruction at all. You just pay your $35, get in line, and go. Their events are ALWAYS packed and I never saw any issues with safety, even with complete idiots bringing their Dodge Caravans out. One thing they do is set up cones here and there to keep speeds down. Here's a link to a video that illustrates well how they did it. Subaru at Wide Open Wednesday

Personally I would totally feel comfortable in a road course class where there's a pace car that goes a reasonable speed and I'm not allowed to pass him. After I'm "certified", or something else like that I move up to a more open class. When I was in high school I had a 15 second 1/4 mile time with my Nova, and woot wooted it all the way down the track. Over the next couple years I progressively built much faster cars, and the excitement was always the same. Its the thrill of being on the course rather than the white knuckle going way fast that would attract folks like me I guess. As has been said, open track days with a little instruction to me are way more fun than a road course competition. To each his own, right?

Someone else said keep the events separated. I like this idea. Since I'd rather autoX than road course, it would kinda blow to have only half a day of autox and then everyone goes on the road course. Saturday autoX and Sunday road course sounds better to me, then I can still get in a full day of racing and choose whether or not to move on to the high speed stuff. Paying per day for an event rather than paying one set price for 2 or three days sounds more appealing too, especially if I had no intentions of sticking around for Sunday's road course time.

I'm sure this thread will lead to ideas and implementing programs so that everyone can join in. When I replied the response to the thread seemed to lean towards let's implement everything we need to, cost for participants isn't an issue. I share a lot of my thoughts to help everyone think about both sides. I guess simply keeping things on an equal playing field for all involved keeps the fire alive for all of us.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Tim --

People have NO IDEA what it costs to rent these tracks per day…. They'd be blown away if they had any clue.

Yep, I think people are getting the idea I'm trying to exclude the low budget guys which is the complete opposite of what I want to do. I think if we all work on this we can come to good middle ground to satisfy the majority of the community. The reality is these events are money losers and without sponsors they wouldn't happen at all, we do it to grow the hobby and because we enjoy the people.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

I think its a great idea.

A few years ago my wife set up my bachelor party get together at Buttonwillow. We did it during their performance drivers clinic LINK . They set up two sessions for us. A beginners instruction and an advance open track. It was a blast and we had tons of track time. I can't remember what it was but its $195 a person per day and I think they gave us a discount for having a large group.

I remember Mrs Pozzi and Curtis were instructing at a track near Sac. We can see what they would do for a group.

[Ron in SoCal]

^ Gaetano is the dude in the middle with his shirt off

[Vince@Meanstreets]

LOL, this was when Gaetano was still doing collections for his god father. Must be a close familly.

I actually found the thread on P-T. man that was more than a few years ago.
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/5...arty-track-day!!!

Tim, if you check around it seems most tracks do a similar thing.

[71RS/SS396]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

LOL, this was when Gaetano was still doing collections for his god father. Must be a close familly.

I actually found the thread on P-T. man that was more than a few years ago.
http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/5...arty-track-day!!!

Tim, if you check around it seems most tracks do a similar thing.

Vince, I've been talking to Mike "Junior" Johnson that owns Evolution driving school about this and he's on board with helping out. I had some private instruction from Mike this year and was very impressed with his methods. Mike is building a C3 vette to get into the community so I think it would be good to use him at the events so if people to want to continue their training they are already have a source they can utilize that they are familiar with.