Norcal Shelby T-Hill Oct 14/15th

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by FETorino

I don't know about smokin' hot laps, I was a couple seconds off your times on Sat.

The old girl is magic. A testament to Ron Suttons grasp of every part of a track car. He took a nice early Mustang and made it into a near perfect track toy.

The car is totally neutral. The motor REVS, it makes the most amazing sounds and even better power. The steering feels great and the brakes require a good amount of pressure but the reward you with all the woah down little pony you could ask for; easy to modulate and hard to overpower the tires. And the tires, the little 245 Hoosiers, they just stick. Sure when you unleash the little Windsor up front the car will dance and skate around but it always seems to be clawing at the pavement and it's easy to get her pointed back straight if she steps out.

I can't thank Greg enough for trusting me to pilot Old Yellar on T-Hill. A great track, a fast track and a magic car to tour that track with. I can't do the car justice with my description of how good it really is. I wish I had a few more laps to try and do her justice with some better lap times but the laps I ran in her were the most fun I have ever had on track. It was like being Ken Miles in the mid 60s for a few minuets.





piloting a vintage feeling Ford around a racetrack is sweet but piloting it around Laguna Seca would probably be even better.

All the kudos should go to Ron Sutton and his suspension magic!! The car was a POS prior to his involvement. He took average and made it GREAT.

I'm glad you finally got to pull your driving suit on and put some seat time in her. Very kind words about the old girl.... It is one of those things that is hard to describe unless you've been in the seat. The car is just so much better than you expect it to be. You still have to be a real driver to get the times down to what she is capable of... Most are not capable. You had it going on and it brought a huge smile to my face, because I knew exactly what you were feeling. It's funny -- the car just begs you to giddy up!

Originally Posted by rustomatic

You've nailed that car here, Rob. I've seen it running on all of the NorCal tracks, and heard responses from many (including Ron Schwarz and Dave G.), and everyone raves about it (in a positive way). It always seems perfectly composed, with everything you need on tap, even without 315s . . . Whoever winds up with that tub of mustard next will be very happy with it.

It will be the greatest "bargain" ever.... because driven right, it's faster than the new Corvettes... it's faster than the new Mustang GT's.... it's simple and effective and best of all IT (unlike that other crap) is F U N to drive. It's pure visceral bliss.

I can't keep up with my buddy Andy in his highly modded 'vette - but that is HIS driving skills (he was the Porsche Club chief driving instructor - and a HOD driving instructor etc). He's running sub 2's at Thill.... the only car he gets to play with is the NASCAR that runs with us.

[SSLance]

I know the feeling Greg (and others) are talking about here...felt it myself in Barney. I was trying to describe that same feeling to a new friend I met yesterday that is thinking about hiring Ron to help set his new track car up.

[Try2paz]

Just coming up for air after the weekend and work.

Well my Sunday didn't work out like I anticipated.

The car is essentially new (shock towers, suspension, motor, etc)

I literally picked up the car from the motor builder and drove straight to t-hill no street miles.

I pull into tech attempt #1 ...car is leaking coolant out of lower radiator hose. (loose clamp) push back to stall tighten clamp drive back to tech.

Tech attempt # 2.. no brake lights... wont let me on the track without them. So I grab a multimeter and start chasing it down. I find that the pressure switch is low on voltage. I drive into willows buy a generic one and wire it up.

It's almost noon now and green group is on the course. The Shelby guys know me and tell me go head out get some laps in before lunch.

I get on the track and motor isn't making any power.. I coast the track and pull into pits. I thought I melted a wire / plug checked everything. By 2PM I gave up and drove it back to the motor builder.

Motor builder called me Monday...fittings going into he fuel pump where loose and sucking air. Easy fix and maybe if I wasn't so frustrated id been able to fix it at the track but I was just burnt out.

I'm defeated to be honest with tracking an older car..I've done everything I can possibly think of to make it bullet proof but keep getting bite by little things.

My wife wants me home with my two girls (2 /1 ) and the last few track days I come home pissed off as I burn time away from my family with nothing to show for it.

The motor builder is putting the car not the dyno this week for prospective buyers. At this point I'm going to take some time off from the sport and focus on the family. I know I'm going to take a significant loss and at this point I look at this whole endeavor as selfish act. I should have never put 130k into a Mustang... I should have put it in my kids college fund or buy a cabin for my family or a motorhome etc.

Sorry if I sound like a sad sack but I give up

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

All the kudos should go to Ron Sutton and his suspension magic!! The car was a POS prior to his involvement. He took average and made it GREAT.

I'm glad you finally got to pull your driving suit on and put some seat time in her. Very kind words about the old girl.... It is one of those things that is hard to describe unless you've been in the seat. The car is just so much better than you expect it to be. You still have to be a real driver to get the times down to what she is capable of... Most are not capable. You had it going on and it brought a huge smile to my face, because I knew exactly what you were feeling. It's funny -- the car just begs you to giddy up!













It will be the greatest "bargain" ever.... because driven right, it's faster than the new Corvettes... it's faster than the new Mustang GT's.... it's simple and effective and best of all IT (unlike that other crap) is F U N to drive. It's pure visceral bliss.

I can't keep up with my buddy Andy in his highly modded 'vette - but that is HIS driving skills (he was the Porsche Club chief driving instructor - and a HOD driving instructor etc). He's running sub 2's at Thill.... the only car he gets to play with is the NASCAR that runs with us.

...And this is why no new car will ever be as much fun as a properly setup old car. I've never driven a new car that had quite the same fun factor as an old car that tells you what its limits are lets you comfortable walk right beyond the limit of grip whenever you want.

Glad you guys had fun out there. Rob said he was smoking in the white car, maybe not smoking fast, but smoking. Sounds like you also need to make a call to Ronstar for some suspension tuning!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Try2paz

Just coming up for air after the weekend and work.

Well my Sunday didn't work out like I anticipated.

The car is essentially new (shock towers, suspension, motor, etc)

I literally picked up the car from the motor builder and drove straight to t-hill no street miles.

I pull into tech attempt #1 ...car is leaking coolant out of lower radiator hose. (loose clamp) push back to stall tighten clamp drive back to tech.

Tech attempt # 2.. no brake lights... wont let me on the track without them. So I grab a multimeter and start chasing it down. I find that the pressure switch is low on voltage. I drive into willows buy a generic one and wire it up.

It's almost noon now and green group is on the course. The Shelby guys know me and tell me go head out get some laps in before lunch.

I get on the track and motor isn't making any power.. I coast the track and pull into pits. I thought I melted a wire / plug checked everything. By 2PM I gave up and drove it back to the motor builder.

Motor builder called me Monday...fittings going into he fuel pump where loose and sucking air. Easy fix and maybe if I wasn't so frustrated id been able to fix it at the track but I was just burnt out.

I'm defeated to be honest with tracking an older car..I've done everything I can possibly think of to make it bullet proof but keep getting bite by little things.

My wife wants me home with my two girls (2 /1 ) and the last few track days I come home pissed off as I burn time away from my family with nothing to show for it.

The motor builder is putting the car not the dyno this week for prospective buyers. At this point I'm going to take some time off from the sport and focus on the family. I know I'm going to take a significant loss and at this point I look at this whole endeavor as selfish act. I should have never put 130k into a Mustang... I should have put it in my kids college fund or buy a cabin for my family or a motorhome etc.

Sorry if I sound like a sad sack but I give up

Sad sack isn't the correct term ------- REALISTIC and HONEST is the correct description.

People that haven't done this don't quite understand. You don't just show up on Friday and race all weekend.... It's usually a thrash..... it's expensive... it's not something most peoples families are in to. If you have young children -- it's all the more difficult.

I spend thousands of dollars per year to do this -- and run a total of about 4 or 5 weekends.... the costs are stupid high. Entry fees - getting there and back - prep expenses - tires - brakes - fuel - rebuilds - "infrastructure" such as trucks and trailers we otherwise wouldn't need.... tools.... all of that. Now factor in the TIME. I left Wednesday for a Saturday track event.... I got home late Monday... that's 5 nights in a hotel room - and eating 3 meals a day "out"....

Let's multiply that times 4...... and it's all selfish "me" time. Now.... if I worked - and had to take vacation days -- and my wife still wanted to go to Hawaii on "her" vacation.... yeah.... it doesn't work for most folks.

Nate ---------- So sorry about your weekend! We've all been there.... getting all jacked up for a big weekend only to have it go south because of something stupid.

I've been running with NorCal Shelby -- "tech" is self tech - nobody is looking (nor are they responsible!) at your car if you're a "regular" -- you're expected to know the rules and standards..... So in actual fact -- nobody has really "teched" my cars for quite awhile. Rob talks me into running back to back weekends in August - NorCal Shelby Mini-Nats at Sonoma and the following weekend with NASA at Thunderhill. Well....... NASA has REAL TECH...... three guys in my shop pointing out all that's wrong with my car! Out of date seat - out of date fuel cell - cage not up to date/standards.... they even found that my "shut off" switch didn't really shut the car off!! I didn't know!! So what I learned is all the things that should be improved. They allowed me to run... with a warning - there'll be no next time until all deficiencies are brought up to their specs.

My point is -- that I'd spent an extra week wasting time (spent in NAPA with Gwen) in between events.... and, had the Tech team not liked the car - and understood it's an "older" track day car.... I would not have been allowed to run. THAT is racing..... crap breaks - rules change - weather changes.....

[Panteracer]

I hear you on how much time it costs vs rewards
but when everything goes well which is not every time
it is a fix that you keep for a while

My Firebird is on motor 9 and that one was in and out three
times before it got sorted... but been running that car for over
28 years and told myself I would never get rid of it
It sat for 6-7 years when I blew one motor and I did ball games,
dance recitals etc with the kids but still messing with the car

I broke suspension pieces, balancers, fans, engine, flat spotted
tires, blew a clutch, carb screwed up, etc, etc on the mustang
but ran it for several years and a lot of track days with Norcal Shelby
great times

My Pantera has been the reliable one but it also has had issues
with two sheared water pumps, jetting issues, minor brake issues,
broken shocks, leaking shocks, leaking clutch master, broken clutch
pin for the pedal, worn out half shafts, broken fuel pump, bad msd,
etc, etc
It has been the best car so far but again they do have issues

Like Greg says I spend a lot of time checking things, adjusting valves,
servicing fluids, plugs,brakes etc before I hit the track and there
are still times you have issues... that is part of the fun for me
as I tinker with them.. wife thinks I am married to them.. like one
of our members says... the other woman

Sometimes I walk away for a a little bit as things piss me off
but I need my fix of working and running them.. that may be
what you need

Bob

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Panteracer

I hear you on how much time it costs vs rewards
but when everything goes well which is not every time
it is a fix that you keep for a while

My Firebird is on motor 9 and that one was in and out three
times before it got sorted... but been running that car for over
28 years and told myself I would never get rid of it
It sat for 6-7 years when I blew one motor and I did ball games,
dance recitals etc with the kids but still messing with the car

I broke suspension pieces, balancers, fans, engine, flat spotted
tires, blew a clutch, carb screwed up, etc, etc on the mustang
but ran it for several years and a lot of track days with Norcal Shelby
great times

My Pantera has been the reliable one but it also has had issues
with two sheared water pumps, jetting issues, minor brake issues,
broken shocks, leaking shocks, leaking clutch master, broken clutch
pin for the pedal, worn out half shafts, broken fuel pump, bad msd,
etc, etc
It has been the best car so far but again they do have issues

Like Greg says I spend a lot of time checking things, adjusting valves,
servicing fluids, plugs,brakes etc before I hit the track and there
are still times you have issues... that is part of the fun for me
as I tinker with them.. wife thinks I am married to them.. like one
of our members says... the other woman

Sometimes I walk away for a a little bit as things piss me off
but I need my fix of working and running them.. that may be
what you need

Bob

ONE good weekend makes up for a lot!!!


It's like golf.... that one or two good shots is what keeps you coming back! LOL

[rustomatic]

Golf, yeah, right.

This is Nate's thread, and he's made very valid points. What we do here is grotesquely selfish (in consideration of money and time)--there are not many arguments against this, although there are a few guys out there who work on cars with their kids, which I do hope is a peaceful and growth-filled endeavor. Such was not the case when I was around (as a child) during one of my father's attempts at mechanical fixitude.

To get what you want out of this hobby (at best, an adrenaline fix or laborer's satisfaction), you need at least one of two things: time or money. Ideally, you have both, but that's just not what life has in store for most of us, so you get one, most of the time. I have time. I've had tons of time over the past decade+, because I learned how to do my job via telecommute before most others. Too much time has actually become a negative for me, but that's another story for another place . . .

Many of us have an insurmountable attraction to things mechanical and horsepower-related. Some of us also have a bit of creativity, which usually means a need to labor upon a specific, physical target. When this is the case, you will get frustrated, maybe quit for a while, but then come back to conquer the demon, so to speak. Sometimes, you just move away from the demon forever (this angle requires a replacement demon, of course).

What may help is defining your attraction to the car thing. Is it a toy that you buy, or is it a product of soul-sucking labor? If it's the former, you may need to flush it down the toilet, as you're probably only counting money. If it's the latter, you might just need another break, and things will come back to you. I gave up old cars between my late 20s and 35 or so, then got back in with my Falcon (because writing books became a non-motivator).

My Falcon has nothing to do with what anyone else thinks or does. It's just an outlet for me to exercise creative and labor-related tangents. For this, I need it. I test only what I did (occasionally against what others have bought or built). If there is a failure, it's only on me. I pathologically avoid the possibility of blaming others for this stupid hobby, unless of course someone gets me the wrong way on a track or the road (hasn't happened yet).

Define what it means to you. Define your angle of approach. Why are you doing it? It's fine to recalibrate.

Blah, blah, blah.

[DBasher]

Originally Posted by Try2paz

My wife wants me home with my two girls (2 /1 ) and the last few track days I come home pissed off as I burn time away from my family with nothing to show for it.

Sorry if I sound like a sad sack but I give up

I went through the same deal back when I was running at Bonneville. Late nights in the garage, away from my young boys for weeks leading up to the one week the car got ran. I thought I was involving them because they'd make the 13hour drive with me...only to get ignored for the week because I was wrenching. If I wasn't working on the car I was thinking about what I needed to do the next day. Not the best memories for me, luckily they still talk about the fun they had.

It sounds like you know what's important and even though you got kicked in the nuts all weekend you still have your priorities. Cars come and go and the racing will always be there, your girls are only this age once.

You don't sound at all like a "sad sack", more like a guy that's got it figured out.

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by rustomatic

Golf, yeah, right.


Many of us have an insurmountable attraction to things mechanical and horsepower-related. Some of us also have a bit of creativity, which usually means a need to labor upon a specific, physical target. When this is the case, you will get frustrated, maybe quit for a while, but then come back to conquer the demon, so to speak. Sometimes, you just move away from the demon forever (this angle requires a replacement demon, of course).

What may help is defining your attraction to the car thing. Is it a toy that you buy, or is it a product of soul-sucking labor? If it's the former, you may need to flush it down the toilet, as you're probably only counting money. If it's the latter, you might just need another break, and things will come back to you. :

To translate.

If you love cars keep it but make sure your primary focus is your family. They will grow up with fond memories of sharing a passion with you.

If it is just an object ditch the pos because your family is more important and there is no passion for them to grow to share.