Project 'Too Much': 1969 P1800S - soon to be P1800 GT - Page 3 - Lateral-g Forums

daemon2 · #21 02-01-2012, 08:21 PM

I've got a great artist working on my renderings, today I had a sneak peek at how its coming together.

I'm happy so far, its hard to build what you can't 'see'.

No rust on these...

DETON8R · #22 02-02-2012, 03:05 PM

Nice to have the ability to visualize your project beforehand. I don't think I'll get that luxury, so I'll have to borrow from your images. And anybody else that can send me their build info and photos. HA!!

What do they say, Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

I like the look of the curled flares rather than the flat flares like those that are found on the BMW M3 Roadster.

Looks like you will be using the stock wheel openings, then modifying those upper lips. I've been looking at the Vox renderings, and the build from Robert Jackson, and the wheel openings have been reworked in those builds, mostly looks like they just raised the top lip of the opening, and widened the opening overall, then added the flare. Also, I'd think about changing the wheel base (for better weight distribution, if it will make a difference worth the effort) if there are any advantages. The Vox rendering has a longer hood/front end and the longer hood is a bit more of the "Muscle Car" look instead of the "European Sports Car" look.

I've been looking at that and there are other ways to do that. The simplest way is to just extend the nose, in the same way that Carol Shelby extended the nose of the AC Ace and made it the AC Cobra. Not sure how much effort I'd expend at really extending the entire front end.

Any mods to the tail fins, head lights, bumpers, spoiler in the plans too?

Sorry, I'm just way too curious.

Iamtheonlyreal1 · #23 02-02-2012, 06:03 PM

I dont mean to interrupt the thread here with pics of my builds, but I just wanted to point out that the Weight Balance wont really be off.. I will have these cars on the scales before too long, and I think everyone would be very surprised at what these cars weight distributions will be after all the mods and upgrades. I dont really think there is much need to extend the wheel base, because the V8's will sit in these cars in a better position than the OEM 4cyl.. If you notice, the front of the LS heads are at the spindle position, so there isnt really any overhange.. The Accessories of the motor is really the only thing forward of the spindle, and the Radiator is the only thing forward of the tires..

With all the mods and weight savings we have done with the crossmember/suspension kit, we will be within about 40 pounds of the original front end weight.. You also have to then take into account the motor actually sits about 4 inches further back than the OEM 4cyl, along with sitting in a lower postion, for a better center of gravity.

In these pics, the motor is fully accessorized, and mounted in position. The headers pictured, are our mock ups for production, and they are currently being set up for production.

I didnt extend the wheel base, but I think the front end mods did help in changing the appearance of the factory short nose. Rasing the Wheel Arches by far makes the most change in the overall appearance and stance of the car. I dont have the correct offset wheels on the car, so the front wheel seems to stick out a bit too much.. If you look at the first pic, you will see the appearance and ride height capability with the same 19 inch wheels as are pictured after the wheel arch mods..

daemon2 · #24 02-02-2012, 06:39 PM

I have been playing with a few suspension simulators and trying to calculate a few things for the rear suspension geometry. The stock C4 had a 96.2 inch wheelbase and 3239 lbs, my P1800 had 96.5 inch wheelbase stock at about 2500lbs.

I am having problems with the Antisquat and centre of gravity because I have to guess on weight and distribution right now. I almost have to have the car finished so I can weigh it and calculate from there. ?

So what I am doing is lining up the wheel location, determined the location of the batwing and diff then I will work out the coilovers based on my estimated weight and ride height. This leave the location and angles for trailing arms without screwing up antisquat and roll centre.

But like I said, this is new to me. Any ideas?

I may want to extend the wheelbase but my feeling right now is that would only by a cosmetic change.

Hang in there with me, as the car comes along I'll share as much info as I can to help you with yours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DETON8R

Nice to have the ability to visualize your project beforehand. I don't think I'll get that luxury, so I'll have to borrow from your images. And anybody else that can send me their build info and photos. HA!!

What do they say, Imitation is the highest form of flattery!

I like the look of the curled flares rather than the flat flares like those that are found on the BMW M3 Roadster.

Looks like you will be using the stock wheel openings, then modifying those upper lips. I've been looking at the Vox renderings, and the build from Robert Jackson, and the wheel openings have been reworked in those builds, mostly looks like they just raised the top lip of the opening, and widened the opening overall, then added the flare. Also, I'd think about changing the wheel base (for better weight distribution, if it will make a difference worth the effort) if there are any advantages. The Vox rendering has a longer hood/front end and the longer hood is a bit more of the "Muscle Car" look instead of the "European Sports Car" look.

I've been looking at that and there are other ways to do that. The simplest way is to just extend the nose, in the same way that Carol Shelby extended the nose of the AC Ace and made it the AC Cobra. Not sure how much effort I'd expend at really extending the entire front end.

Any mods to the tail fins, head lights, bumpers, spoiler in the plans too?

Sorry, I'm just way too curious.

daemon2 · #25 02-02-2012, 08:32 PM

Can you corner weight your car and send me the numbers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamtheonlyreal1

I dont mean to interrupt the thread here with pics of my builds, but I just wanted to point out that the Weight Balance wont really be off..

Iamtheonlyreal1 · #26 02-02-2012, 09:03 PM

I will have the corner weights before too long, along with the front to rear distribution percentages.. I would ask though, did the C4 have great suspension performance? The cars I had driven, really didnt impress me much. They seemed to have the squatty affect, and seem to be a bit sketchy.. I just wonder if it is worth all the mods to make this work, and what the actual gains would be. I am not pretending to know, just honestly wondering what the overall gains would be?

I will be doing some reconfiguration here or there also, when it comes to component placement.. We are working on a production Jaguary style placed fuel tank, that will stand up in the front of the trunk, near the rear axle. We will then have an OEM fuel tank delete plate, that will have a recessed area made into it, so we can house the battery in a centered position, as close to the rear axle as possible. I am trying to get rid of alot of the factory rear axle over hang weight, which should be very beneficial in setup..

Also, by running the Jaguar style fuel tank and the OEM tank delete plate, it will allow us to run a transverse muffler assembly in the space that the factory fuel tank occupied. This will help with ground clearance issues, and muffler size and placement, because we will only have exhaust pipe running the length of the car.

daemon2 · #27 02-03-2012, 09:14 AM

This is an interesting question and one that attracts a lot of opinions from motorheads around the globe.
The C4 has a good track record and is used by rodders in a wide variety of projects.
Ride quality is a very subjective topic. Its known that the C4 was designed for handling and sacrificed some ride quality as a result of this.

"In 1988, the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) outlawed all Showroom Stock Corvettes from its racing events. The reason? The Vettes had not been beaten in three years of racing against the world's best sports cars, and their competitors complained so loudly that the sanctioning body finally had to act."

Read more: http://www.vetteweb.com/events/vemp_...#ixzz1lKrzBzl2

There are a wide variety of options out there, there are people who won't like my approach.

Bottom line, this is what I chose to go with and I am happy with the project so far.

It may be possible that the C4 you saw had worn suspension parts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamtheonlyreal1

.. I would ask though, did the C4 have great suspension performance? The cars I had driven, really didnt impress me much. They seemed to have the squatty affect, and seem to be a bit sketchy.. I just wonder if it is worth all the mods to make this work, and what the actual gains would be. I am not pretending to know, just honestly wondering what the overall gains would be?

Iamtheonlyreal1 · #28 02-03-2012, 01:32 PM

Fair enough.. As I have said, I didnt really do any research in that direction, so I didnt know the particulars or sacrifices.. It just seemed to be alot of work, and just wondered what the potential gain over other alternatives might be..

DETON8R · #29 02-04-2012, 08:33 AM

Great back and forth guys.

Robert, nice progress on St Marie.

Do you have a build thread on that car posted somewhere else? I have not looked at other boards lately.

Daemon, nice work so far and I'd love to see how the car comes together with the IRS. I know I'm good with sheet metal and a few other mechanical/structural things, and at this point I wouldn't take on a project like reworking a rear suspension like you have. Unfortunately I know my limitations. I'd consider putting an unmodified IRS (unmodified geometry that is) onto a car, however I don't have the confidence to do what you are doing. I've seen a few cars (tri-5's and early 60's GM full size cars) with replacement frames and C4 Vette based IRS's, and I've heard nothing but praises and amazement from the owners of the cars. The C4 Vette has been tried and tested in many configurations, and most of those have been without narrowing the IRS too much. I'd really like to see how you put it together, and get your feedback on how it performs once it is together and you have had some time to put it through its paces, as the one thing that has come clear to me over this search for info is that anything can be done, it is just a matter of how well it works when it is put together. And does it do what you wanted it to do when you set out to put it together....

Having said all that, and since I'm not a suspension engineer, I'd prefer to let somebody else do the engineering and then tell me what can or can't be done with the set up. The one thing I don't want to do is waste a bunch of time, effort and money putting something together then finding out it won't work for what I wanted. Been there, done that, don't want to see that movie again....

Keep the pictures coming and the explanations, as I've been watching several builds like this, and just seeing the pictures of these amazing cars come together really helps explain "the how" and "the why" of these builds.

Iamtheonlyreal1 · #30 02-04-2012, 10:51 AM

There is a Project Saint Marie Build thread here, just type it in.. The pieces below were developed, because we are building customer cars, and I wanted parts that would take the bulk of the work out of it, and offer consistancy during the build. We have our shop build cars, 2 customer pay builds, and 4 more on the waiting list.

As far as making mod's simple and painless goes, this is the bolt in kit solution I came up with.. The coil over conversion kit, has 5 inches of quick ride height adjustment, without affecting suspension travel. If you look at the design of bar, you will see that it puts all the Load back into the spring pockets, rather than transfer it to the inner unibody frame rails like alot of other setups. The Aluminum adjustable trailing arms/panhard bar, lets you dial everything in at any ride height, and has multiple Panhard Bar mounting locations. The rear ends are offered in 54, 55, 56 inch track widths, so you can dial in the potential wheel choices for better fitment.

The bolt in front end kit, is completly adjustable, and has 2 inch drop spinles for an option, along with a wide variety of braking and steering options. Neither the front or the rear kit involves, cutting, welding, etc, so it is very simple for the weekend warrior, with a typical garage and tools.