Why Cops are ...

[Track Junky]

I grew up in the Bay Area but never really spent much time in Oakland, Richmond, Stockton, etc other than for business reasons. In and Out.

I started working in Vallejo last November. Up till now we've had 4 shooting instances that I know of, the Most recent on Georgia St. where the police blocked Georgia St. off for blocks while they did their investigation. The first day on the job I was watching a pavement overlay project. I was told that the day before I got there one of the guys doing some clean up work with a bobcat got caught in the middle of a gun fight. I was told the bobcat was struck by a bullet and the guy working it did not come back to the job. Two days later me and one of the City of Vallejo Public works inspectors were chatting in a parking lot and a tall skinny guy came up and apologized for knocking down a street light with his car. He began to tell us the story on how the police were chasing him and how he tried to ram them to get away. This is my third day working in Vallejo mind you so you can imagine how reality is starting to set in. 3 weeks ago we heard 6 gunshots in a row, saw a guy running through the parking lot, and minutes later a cop car flying through the parking lot lights and sirens blaring.

All this a 30 minute drive from where I grew up.

If you were a cop what would your attitude be like in a town like this.

[1HTBRRD]

Originally Posted by Ravenworks

Sorry to reignite an old thread, I saw it a while back and didn't comment the first time around but I wanted to chime in...

By "profit motive" I speak of "civil asset forfetures" that more and more localitlies, and the feds, rely on for revenue. You can be pulled-over and have your vehicle seized even if you haven't broken any laws and aren't charged with anything!!! Just try and fight a government hungry for the money your car will bring!

Last year there were 18,000 laws passed among federal, state, and local governments. It's getting to where the police can't keep up with what's legal and what's not so how the heck can we keep up? We are becoming a police state and I'm not terribly comfortable with that. Yes, I've voiced these concerns to my police friends over the years and 2 of the 6 have retired the badge because of the same concerns.

Asset forfeitures are legal when certain crimes (ex. drug dealing) are committed and a vehicle is used in the commission of the crime or the absurd amount of cash that a drug dealer has on him at the time of arrest is directly linked to the dope he has been selling. Your quote that your vehicle can be seized for no reason, without violating any laws is probably one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. I hope it was some kind of typo. Remember we live in a litigious society, there is no way in hell a court would allow an asset seizure without significant proof of wrong doing.

BTW, SWAT teams are a neccessity because of how bad guys arm themselves.....maybe you didnt hear about the single bad guy who killed two OPD motorcycle officers and then when he was tracked down and a SWAT team made entry on his apartment, he killed two more officers before they were able to stop the threat (kill him). Greg Rickman could tell you a little more about that, his entire build is dedicated to those who have died in the line of duty, especially his former OPD coworkers who were killed that day.....and yeah i'm a cop, and yeah i'm on the SWAT team.

[RussMurco]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

I started working in Vallejo last November. Up till now we've had 4 shooting instances that I know of, the Most recent on Georgia St. where the police blocked Georgia St. off for blocks while they did their investigation......
3 weeks ago we heard 6 gunshots in a row, saw a guy running through the parking lot, and minutes later a cop car flying through the parking lot lights and sirens blaring.

All this a 30 minute drive from where I grew up.

If you were a cop what would your attitude be like in a town like this.

If you read and comprehended my reply fully you would realize that I am not bashing policemen, it's their politically motivated bosses that I take issue with.
Yes, there are high-crime areas throughout our country and the police that patrol those areas probably feel that they are in a war zone. Having seen some of the worst of what humans are capable of in far off lands I know I wouldn't want to see that every time I went to work so, again, I get it...

[Track Junky]

Thanks, understood. I think I know where your coming from. This is a complicated deal that you are talking about and I think dwells deeper than just the supervisors alone.
Here's my .02........I feel each and every situation a police man encounters should be handled case specific and that within itself carries alot of variables. In any given situation, a policeman is placed in an authoritive position right off the bat. The maturity and experience of that policeman will dictate the direction of that given situation. There are many youngsters that become policeman, placed in an authoritive position, and simply aren't mature or experienced enough to be in the position that they are in. In short, what I'm trying to say is that yes they may have over aggressive supervisors, but when they are out in the field and it is time to make a judgement call they need to put there big boy pants on and handle it appropriately. Being aggressive 100% of the time isn't appropriate. Especially towards law abiding citizens.

[RussMurco]

Originally Posted by 1HTBRRD

Asset forfeitures are legal when certain crimes (ex. drug dealing) are committed and a vehicle is used in the commission of the crime or the absurd amount of cash that a drug dealer has on him at the time of arrest is directly linked to the dope he has been selling. Your quote that your vehicle can be seized for no reason, without violating any laws is probably one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. I hope it was some kind of typo. Remember we live in a litigious society, there is no way in hell a court would allow an asset seizure without significant proof of wrong doing.

Before calling my assertion "idiotic" perhaps you should do some research, officer...
https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/end-asset-forfeiture/

"Civil asset forfeiture instead refers to legal property or cash owned by individuals not charged with any crime, which is nevertheless seized by law enforcement agents who merely suspect it was used in a crime.

* If tens of thousands of dollars in cash are found in a person's home, it is automatically suspected of having been used in drug dealing, because no "normal" person would have that much cash lying around. "Odd or eccentric people", who distrust banks and keep their savings at home, are at risk.
* If trace amounts of marijuana are found in a vehicle, the vehicle may be seized, even if the owner was unaware that any drugs were transported in the vehicle."

This practice does exist and became so abused in some areas that thay had to reform the laws! (CAFRA) H.R. 1658 - 2000
If the used car I bought last year was owned by someone who used weed and some was left some under the seat I could have my car seized, even though I don't drink and react to the smell of pot being smoked by vomiting violently.
The ACLU (NOT my favorite organization but occasionally they get things right) researched it found approximately $7billion in seizures since the extension of RICO in 1986, all from people who were never charged with any crime.

Originally Posted by 1HTBRRD

BTW, SWAT teams are a neccessity because of how bad guys arm themselves.....maybe you didnt hear about the single bad guy who killed two OPD motorcycle officers and then when he was tracked down and a SWAT team made entry on his apartment, he killed two more officers before they were able to stop the threat (kill him). Greg Rickman could tell you a little more about that, his entire build is dedicated to those who have died in the line of duty, especially his former OPD coworkers who were killed that day.....and yeah i'm a cop, and yeah i'm on the SWAT team.

Again, my issue is not with the cops, it's their bosses. No, perhaps I didn't here of those cops getting killed but I have known the widow of a great guy who was shot 4 times in a botched SWAT raid. I also read about the 2 women delivering papers in the early morning hours that had their truck riddled with 102 police bullets in a case of mistaken identity, even though it was a completely different make and color of the one they were looking for.

The town that I spoke of, the one with the Sheriff and his new Charger, left a hell of an impression on me. Within a month of starting work in that town my cracker-white, 47 year-old self, driving a non-pimped and bone-stock (not even tinted) Lexus was pulled over by one of the local deputies for, hold onto your seat, speeding (58) in a 45 zone. Only problem? It was a 55 zone and I suspect he just wanted to search my car. If not, then he was a true idiot who didn't know the local speed limits and was offended that I dare sit 20' behind his car as he crept down the road. I politely told him "No" and since I was pulled over in the parking lot of my employer, at 8:30 in the morning, I told him to "get the warrant, I'll be inside". This is just one of 3 such pointless interactions I've had with police over the past 10 years. I'm as law-abiding as it gets and if I'm getting harassed I can imagine some of the more obscene claims of abuses from minorities and others could be legit.

Does all this mean I hold police in contempt? Absolutely not. I respect the job they do, I wouldn't want to do it, and again, my issue is with the bosses in political office. I know the tremendous pressure police face with thugs and killers on one side, rabid lawyers on another side, reporters hungry to exploit a miscue for rating and glory on another side, and the public perception of their actions on yet another side. The majority of police carry all that weight on their shoulders and remain polite and professional. There are some, however, who seem to master the lowering of public perception and respect with poor attitudes and carrying a chip on their shoulder. Those officers need to go, if you can get the unions to fire them (which in many areas is next to impossible without a felony act on their part). Some good PR work needs to take place in many localities and some police officers need to be reminded that the vast majority of citizens are on their side. Perception goes a long way and many average citizens are starting to view some police agencies in a different light than in the past. When the general public starts seeing you as the enforcers of political agendas and revenue gathering, you've got serious problems on your hands.

I also think the general public is becoming a little "battle-weary" with the "war on drugs". 50 years of "The Great Society" has done nothing to lower poverty levels just as 30 years of "The War on Drugs" has done nothing to lower it. It's not that they want to do drugs themselves, they are just tiring of their rights being trampled in the perceived over-zealous tactics being used by law enforcement in general and the absolutely absurd amount of money being spent at every level of government on it. I, personally, have grown quite tired of 4th amendment trampling with drug-dogs and DUI checkpoints just as I have grown tired of politicians going after my guns every time some whack-job pops a gasket and starts killing multiples of people.
Easy answers to these problems don't exist but they will have to be confronted at some point...

God Bless, and

[InfernalVortex]

If you cant handle dealing with human filth without projecting that onto every citizen you encounter then you shouldn't be a cop. There are a lot of dangerous jobs where you have to deal with people on a daily basis. I delivered pizzas for a while when I was younger, and guess what, by most lists delivery drivers have a higher fatality rate than law officers. And I had to deal with assholes on a regular basis too, even had a gun pointed at me once while doing that.It's a job. If you can't handle it without breaking the law or being a piece of crap to innocent people then you need a different job. I've met lots of really cool cops and I would never make a blanket judgment on them. They're people and they're all different.

I understand everyone has bad days, but innocent people are violated and murdered everyday by terrified cops who usually get away with it. If you cant handle it, do something else. Otherwise those of you who have to deal with human refuse day in and day out and remain decent human beings have my respect.

I just dont want to play into this "cops have such a dangerous job! Give them sympathy!" routine because they volunteered for that job, and I did a statistically more dangerous job for a very long time without wanting special treatment for it. The "I need to go home tonight, my job is dangerous!" routine is why so many people get their rights violated everyday.

Also, I know I couldn't be a cop without turning into a total assbag, thats why I'm not a cop.

http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cfoi_rates_2011hb.pdf

[1HTBRRD]

Originally Posted by Ravenworks

Before calling my assertion "idiotic" perhaps you should do some research, officer...
https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/end-asset-forfeiture/

"Civil asset forfeiture instead refers to legal property or cash owned by individuals not charged with any crime, which is nevertheless seized by law enforcement agents who merely suspect it was used in a crime.

* If tens of thousands of dollars in cash are found in a person's home, it is automatically suspected of having been used in drug dealing, because no "normal" person would have that much cash lying around. "Odd or eccentric people", who distrust banks and keep their savings at home, are at risk.
* If trace amounts of marijuana are found in a vehicle, the vehicle may be seized, even if the owner was unaware that any drugs were transported in the vehicle."

This practice does exist and became so abused in some areas that thay had to reform the laws! (CAFRA) H.R. 1658 - 2000
If the used car I bought last year was owned by someone who used weed and some was left some under the seat I could have my car seized, even though I don't drink and react to the smell of pot being smoked by vomiting violently.
The ACLU (NOT my favorite organization but occasionally they get things right) researched it found approximately $7billion in seizures since the extension of RICO in 1986, all from people who were never charged with any crime.



Again, my issue is not with the cops, it's their bosses. No, perhaps I didn't here of those cops getting killed but I have known the widow of a great guy who was shot 4 times in a botched SWAT raid. I also read about the 2 women delivering papers in the early morning hours that had their truck riddled with 102 police bullets in a case of mistaken identity, even though it was a completely different make and color of the one they were looking for.

The town that I spoke of, the one with the Sheriff and his new Charger, left a hell of an impression on me. Within a month of starting work in that town my cracker-white, 47 year-old self, driving a non-pimped and bone-stock (not even tinted) Lexus was pulled over by one of the local deputies for, hold onto your seat, speeding (58) in a 45 zone. Only problem? It was a 55 zone and I suspect he just wanted to search my car. If not, then he was a true idiot who didn't know the local speed limits and was offended that I dare sit 20' behind his car as he crept down the road. I politely told him "No" and since I was pulled over in the parking lot of my employer, at 8:30 in the morning, I told him to "get the warrant, I'll be inside". This is just one of 3 such pointless interactions I've had with police over the past 10 years. I'm as law-abiding as it gets and if I'm getting harassed I can imagine some of the more obscene claims of abuses from minorities and others could be legit.

Does all this mean I hold police in contempt? Absolutely not. I respect the job they do, I wouldn't want to do it, and again, my issue is with the bosses in political office. I know the tremendous pressure police face with thugs and killers on one side, rabid lawyers on another side, reporters hungry to exploit a miscue for rating and glory on another side, and the public perception of their actions on yet another side. The majority of police carry all that weight on their shoulders and remain polite and professional. There are some, however, who seem to master the lowering of public perception and respect with poor attitudes and carrying a chip on their shoulder. Those officers need to go, if you can get the unions to fire them (which in many areas is next to impossible without a felony act on their part). Some good PR work needs to take place in many localities and some police officers need to be reminded that the vast majority of citizens are on their side. Perception goes a long way and many average citizens are starting to view some police agencies in a different light than in the past. When the general public starts seeing you as the enforcers of political agendas and revenue gathering, you've got serious problems on your hands.

I also think the general public is becoming a little "battle-weary" with the "war on drugs". 50 years of "The Great Society" has done nothing to lower poverty levels just as 30 years of "The War on Drugs" has done nothing to lower it. It's not that they want to do drugs themselves, they are just tiring of their rights being trampled in the perceived over-zealous tactics being used by law enforcement in general and the absolutely absurd amount of money being spent at every level of government on it. I, personally, have grown quite tired of 4th amendment trampling with drug-dogs and DUI checkpoints just as I have grown tired of politicians going after my guns every time some whack-job pops a gasket and starts killing multiples of people.
Easy answers to these problems don't exist but they will have to be confronted at some point...

God Bless, and

Sorry if I offended you with the word idiotic.... I am not going to even start the argument of the credible source you quoted from the internet, I will let everyone else click on it, look around for a bit, and make their own judgements.

I'm done, I like this site for the cars and I need to focus on them and not get pulled into the off topic forums.