Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68
As far as I can tell the shops that have posted on this thread are some reputable guys and do handle their bidness... but that being said, come on guys, there is the other side of it.... plenty of customer have no problem paying their bills but the SHOP cannot keep up... cannot keep promises... cannot make deadlines (often times self imposed BY THE SHOP). I know way too many of these situations and what really sucks is when it takes all the fun out of it and people don't even want to play anymore. No one wins then.
It takes 2 to tango.... just had to throw that out there to keep it fair.
Like a lot of things in life, the few ruin things for the many and the reputable guys have to answer the tough questions like that.... which also can be a blessing too.
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Now this is where you get into a difference between a shop and a business. Greg Weld has a shop in his backyard, I have a business. A shop does not have to be in your back yard. You can rent a space or heck even own the building. Some shops learn from their mistakes and quickly learn to run a business. Most builders learn this lesson. Very few open up a business on day one, if they were that smart, they would open another more profitable business and work less hours.
I see these shops pop up all the time on the Internet, they post up stuff that looks like it was built it in the dark. It is rough at best. The projects never reach the end because they cannot be finished. The builder does not have the forethought and planning to make the car work.
I also know there is an ass for every seat and a girl for every guy. There are guys who can build a car for a guy that cost 10k and have a satisfied customer. There are also guys can't touch a car that costs less then 6 figures and a few that only do 7 figure projects. We parked next to a car at show a few weeks ago that had more money in the paint then a Camaro we built from the ground up a few years ago. Just the paint job, and in my opinion the paint job was worth the money, it was a ridler car.
The biggest thing I have learned in business is picking the right customers. This is really hard, I have picked my share and more of some bad apples. At this point we have some awesome customers. And having a good customer does not have anything to do with how thick their wallet is. It helps. But it really has to do with their ability to actually understand the amount of work it takes to build this junk and be able to tell the difference in quality of cars and be able to reasonably understand the level of work that will satisfy them and that they will be able to pay for in a timely manner.
I had a really rich customer tell me a few years ago that I should strive for customers that don't want to see you go out of business after your done with the car. I'm not saying some one wishes you harm, I'm saying some one that understands you HAVE to make a profit to feed your family and you deserve to go on vacation. They understand you run a business and have to pay expenses and this shop is not free to operate. That water you offered them when they walked in to be hospitable cost some one money, so does the toilet paper in the bathroom. Everyone says how bad Walmart is but a lot of people must buy their stuff cuz they are the biggest retailer in the world. People now days hunt out the low price as their first qualification.
I used to get the phone call a few years ago, their first question was, How much to bag my truck? My response was what kinda truck do you have? That usually gets them to realize how dumb their question is. But people look at custom work like a menu, and try to figure out the cost so quickly with out trying analyze the reality of the cost of a project. Some guys think you can build a car for less then then cost of all the actual parts. They just look up the price of the crate engine and never think that is the cheap part of the engine. The ECU and bracket system and headers and clutch can cost more then a 430hp LS3. All these fancy parts people put on their cars on this site are expensive.
The guys who I think really has this business dialed is Roy Brizo, that guys builds like 15 cars a years and has the highest labor rate in the industry and I can't think of the last time he had a car at SEMA. But Roy has a waiting list probably a year long and that was even during the bad economy a few years ago. But Roy will not anything crazy for a new customer and hates to do it anyways. Ask Greg how hard it was to put an Ls3 in his 33 it was.
My last example will be a story. I had a customer call me and send pics of a project he had. I gave him a rough idea at 16k for what I saw, he thought it was half that money. I said Ok well I know I know this business better then a guy who does not even know how to do the work. He wanted me to drive 4 hours to come look, I said will it pointless. Unless your willing to pay 16, because if I get there and go yeap it's 16 and your only gonna pay 8k i should just save my Sunday. So this customer got hooked up with another shop who said they could do all we discussed and more for 7k. Well a few years later that same customer asked me at show to swing by and give my opinion about about how screwed up his car was after the mess he got into. I went and looked and the guy was showing me things that were wrong and kept going on and on. I said we'll how much did you lay the guy. He told me well it was supposed to be 7k but it really ended up at 5k. I then told him well you did not pay for this to be right, he did the things you wanted but pay for him to put it on in the way you consider proper. You paid him to hang a quarter panel and he did. You just not pay him to do it in the way you wanted it done. So many years later then car is getting closer to getting done on here and I see they guy has learned some lessons that you get what you pay for. You cannot go to Sizzler and bitch your steak does not taste like Ruth Chris for the 8.99 you just paid for a New York steak. It just a given Ruth Chris is a whole lot more. But if Sizzle makes you happy eat it up.
So the problem I see is a shop that really has no a real clue what it takes and a customer that thinks the best of people. I think most of the time, the crazy build stories we hear are not premeditated, they are just poorly run businesses.
You should never have to leave a deposit for labor with a shop. I can understand big ticket parts.
You should be able to other customer, local and long distance. Find out how the rubber meets the road.
If any body is going to give you a bid, you better have a bare metal cars and an exact parts list of every single part that will go on the car.
Remember if your going with the lowest bidder, that is exactly what your getting, THE LOWEST BIDDER.
If you ever have something you don't feel comfortable about, your probably right if you cannot get a satisfactory answer from your builder. Keep asking until your question is answered. I spend a lot of my time answering what the customer says is a dumb question. Taking time for these questions builds confidence in the builder customer relationship.
Ask questions about cars in a shop that appear to be stalled. Every car has a story.
Just because the guys seems nice is no excuse for proper billing paperwork and contract. Now days most legit shops will have some kind of contract.
Don't pick the first shop that you come in contact with, without checking out any possibility.
Work with a builder who is going to do the work if you order parts. Every builder has parts they prefer to use for one reason or another. Order wrong parts does not save you any money. I see this often.
Good luck and choose wisely
Brian Hobaugh SCCA National Tour June 2014
First Hemi 'Cuda Convertible Ever Built
Short clips: Goodguys Pleasanton autocross and pit videos
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