ANOTHER Shipping-A-Car Thread

[ccracin]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

just like anything else in this world. Do your homework and check your local laws and regulations.

He will for sure. The LEO Scott mentions above is Law Enforcement Officer. He'll have handle on it for sure. I think while onevoice was trying to be helpful, his reply came off as condescending to me. Either way, it's all good information.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by CRCRFT78

Ok I would just like to state that I didn't wake up and say to myself, you have a truck and trailer, you can be a transporter. Not that anyone is accusing me of that. What I am getting from some of the comments are unless you are prepared to do this legally and with the proper equipment, don't bother. What I am doing would be nothing more than a "paid favor."

I certainly don't want to do this illegally and be that sleazeball. I don't have the time or the money for fines or jail, lol. Driving commercially for so many years and discussing this with friends in the towing business made me inquire about doing this. Either way, some deep thought and research is in order.

The minute ANYTHING changes hands in exchange for doing something... it's COMMERCIAL.

So here's the problem.

If everything goes okay -- everybody is happy... and everyone goes about their business....


BUTT -- Always a big butt in the room...


If you have an accident -- or something happens to the customers car... or anything other than a perfect pickup and drop off... you begin to have problems.

Since you're not covered on your insurance as "commercial" -- they're not going to cover you... The person you did the "favor" for - is now pissed and wants his pound of flesh and is more than happy to start singing his song about how he paid you... Then all bets are off. You're in deep shizzle without a shizzlepaddle.


I just hauled Brian Hobaugh's Camaro -- and Bret Voekel's Camaro down to Texas for them - and brought Ed Capen's Corvette home to California. I wouldn't so much as take a bottle of water! They offered -- and each time I said "thanks" but no can do! That way they could never claim I was paid to do this === I did this as a pure favor. Period. I wouldn't even agree to take anything when I dropped their stuff off safe and sound! Because... then they could claim we had a "deal". No thanks! Nothing zip nada.

So my advice is to go commercial all the way if that's what you plan to do. Do it right - factor in all the overhead - and be clean as a whistle. Otherwise - it's only a matter of time when the lawsuits start flying.

[onevoice]

Originally Posted by motorscot

I'm not sure where you are coming from with your charges of law breaking and under the table antics of my example. I am not attempting to glorify this local transporter and (in your opinion) his blatant disregard for the law (your words).

I am a LEO with over 20 years on the job and don't appreciate your insinuations.

Apparently my words were taken out of context and as the true gospel. Sorry for that. The dude was legit, he had insurance, he was DOT registered. He told me about deductions, maintenance, depreciation, etc.

When he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to deal with the extra paperwork of DOT regs, he was referring to the extra steps and issues with going over the 26,xxx lb GVWR and the included legalities. Much like Greg's concerns with truck/trailer GVWR and overall length which he could have been faced with when considering his car hauler.

Did I take his words as gospel? No. Did I feel like breaking down each and every minute of travel time through 5 states and varying traffic conditions, foul ups, and other unforseeables in my post so that I would have no chance of being misinterpreted? No.

I am in complete agreement with you in your assertion that you can't travel that far in two days. I merely used Mapquest.com to get general information.

I am in complete agreement with you when you talk about loaded windshield time being the way to maximize your income. I used the original poster's question as my premise of a part time operation.

I shouldn't have generalized so much and perhaps my words would not have been misconstrued. I was only trying to pass along info that I gleaned from my conversation with him. I would hope that being the logical and intelligent men that I believe all of us are, that we, or anyone, wishing to get into hauling would research it completely and go about it legally and responsibly.

As I have NOT done further investigation because I won't be eligible to retire for another 3 1/2 years, I wasn't going to waste my time right now.

When the time comes, I will do my due diligence and make a rational and informed decision.

I didn't ask if he was being emotionally or spiritually fulfilled by being a small time car hauler. BUT, he said that he made good money working for himself, and liked the job.

If any of my responses have come across as hostile, my apologies.

I wasn't trying to be critical, but by giving example numbers, I assumed you were using them to making a point. This is a good example of always doing your research. I understand your LEO background, but again, if you are not in DOT enforcement, your experience may not be up to date. For example, just by being a vehicle for hire, the driver you talked to is AUTOMATICALLY governed by the DOT regulations, he doesn't get a choice if he needs a CDL or not, and he must abide by all the regulations, including log books. The FMCA/DOT regulations are somewhat confusing and certainly lengthy, but the bottom line is that anyone hauling freight like vehicles, across state lines, for hire, is on borrowed time if they are ignoring the regs and they WILL get caught. It's just a matter of time.

There are two definitions of a commercial motor vehicle. The first is found in FMCSR 390.5 and covers vehicles with gross vehicle weights (GVW) or gross vehicle weight ratings (GVWR) between 10,001 and 26,000 lbs. An example would be a Ford F-350 dual rear-wheel pickup with a GVWR of 11,300 lbs., or a combination unit such as a Ford F-150 pickup (with a GVWR of 7,200 lbs.) towing a trailer with a GVWR of 2,801 lbs. or more.

Once the vehicle or combination vehicle exceeds 10,000 lbs., it is regulated and FMCSR Parts 390-396 and 399 apply.

An example that should make us all nervous from the FMCA website:

A company driver is operating a pickup truck and towing a trailer. The driver is transporting company property to a work site or delivering products to a customer and is pulled over by a law enforcement officer for a broken taillight. The officer approaches the driver, requesting license and registration.

After a quick look at the documents, the officer asks for the driver's Health Card (Certificate of Medical Exam) and/or log book. The driver has neither, and a citation is issued for the lack of health card, log book, as well as the broken taillight. The truck and trailer combination weighs at least 10,001 lbs., but less than 26,000 lbs

The 26000 discussion was in reference to private vehicles that must abide by commercial regulations due to their weight. regardless of whether they are being used for a business.

There are plenty of exceptions in the regs, such as for farmers in certain situations, but there isn't one for car guys.

Last year in my area, the DOT guys were out for blood and pulling over any dually pickup with a magnetic sign on the side. My general contractor friend traded his dually for a SRW truck just to avoid the hassle. The lawn care guys took the signs off their trucks, but were still getting pulled over if they had a couple of mowers on a trailer.

Good luck.

[motorscot]

onevoice: Thank you for the clarification. I had no reason to believe or suspect that he was operating illegally. His statement of logging mileage was there, along with hotel stay vs sleeping in his truck. I am aware of wheel time and their limits (but I don't know what the max drive time allowed is). I would like to think he kept accurate logs. I spoke with him for about 15 minutes and paraphrased our conversation. I didn't ask about medical cards or anything else.

The only thing that I recall was he implied there was additional logs to keep after exceeding 26xxx lbs. Something to do with having to purchase fuel in each state you enter. I don't do DOT checks and never will.

Regardless, you definitely provide good info as to the complexities involved and some possible pitfalls to be aware of.

[CRCRFT78]

I myself, would not get into this unless I was properly licensed and insured.
I would not run the risk of losing my commercial license, house, vehicles, freedom or whatever else by trying to skate past the law. All intents and purposes would be to do this by the book.

[CamaroMike]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I just hauled Brian Hobaugh's Camaro -- and Bret Voekel's Camaro down to Texas for them - and brought Ed Capen's Corvette home to California. I wouldn't so much as take a bottle of water! They offered -- and each time I said "thanks" but no can do! I wouldn't even agree to take anything when I dropped their stuff off safe and sound!

My friends need to be more like you!

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The minute ANYTHING changes hands in exchange for doing something... it's COMMERCIAL.

So here's the problem.

If everything goes okay -- everybody is happy... and everyone goes about their business....


BUTT -- Always a big butt in the room...


If you have an accident -- or something happens to the customers car... or anything other than a perfect pickup and drop off... you begin to have problems.

Since you're not covered on your insurance as "commercial" -- they're not going to cover you... The person you did the "favor" for - is now pissed and wants his pound of flesh and is more than happy to start singing his song about how he paid you... Then all bets are off. You're in deep shizzle without a shizzlepaddle.


I just hauled Brian Hobaugh's Camaro -- and Bret Voekel's Camaro down to Texas for them - and brought Ed Capen's Corvette home to California. I wouldn't so much as take a bottle of water! They offered -- and each time I said "thanks" but no can do! That way they could never claim I was paid to do this === I did this as a pure favor. Period. I wouldn't even agree to take anything when I dropped their stuff off safe and sound! Because... then they could claim we had a "deal". No thanks! Nothing zip nada.

So my advice is to go commercial all the way if that's what you plan to do. Do it right - factor in all the overhead - and be clean as a whistle. Otherwise - it's only a matter of time when the lawsuits start flying.

Great explanation Greg!

[CRCRFT78]

Can those of you that do this for a living or have had cars shipped give me some insight into the insurance aspect of this. Are the transporters covered under a set dollar amount, say a $5 million policy and the items being shipped insured under a separate dollar amount or the same policy?

[BMR Sales]

Jose, that is a good question to ask when you are talking to the Shippers. Brokers may not know what the Individual Trucking Co's are offering and that is another down-side to Brokers.

Also make sure that you have Your insurance up to date and ask your Insurance Agent about coverage during Shipping

[Ron in SoCal]

Last time I shipped, I requested documentation as an 'additional insured.' Just in case, you know?

I believe there's a total load limit amount and per vehicle limit. Depending on insurer, your mileage may vary...