Anyone else seeing an issue with companies going "China" on us?

[Hotrod1]

I have traveled the Midwest and it makes you sick about what has happened.

For me, if I can find something made in the USA, I will do my best to buy it. I support my country anyway I can.

Its a shame how we have given our country away with agreements like nafta.

[DavidBoren]

Pride isn't, or shouldn't be, based on nationality. I prefer to buy products that are manufactured in America because of the standardized processes, quality control, and information available pertaining to the materials used. It has nothing to do with me being born and raised in America.

I am not so easily convinced that the global market or strict environmental laws or even illegal immigrants are the reason for there being so many unemployed Americans. I blame America for the amount of unemployed Americans.

Corporate greed and laziness are why things are the way they are. It saves a dollar to outsource, and we the people are willing to buy the poor quality products that result. If we didn't facilitate it, they wouldn't do it. If we were willing to do the crap jobs ourselves, immigrants wouldn't be here knowing they can find work.

We did this to us.

[dale68z]

I have an auto repair shop. It has been very frustrating to have a brand I trusted to build a quality part that I can confidently install on my customers car, turn to crap. It seems the changes really started happening about 15 years ago. It seems the traditionally good name brands have kinda figured out their issues and the level of decline in quality has stopped or now gone back up.

But...
Most of my parts are ordered online. These parts are typically delivered to my shop within an hour. One supplier in particular, will use the catalog of a "good" brand for their generic brand. I have has multiple issue where a part had to be warrantied only to find the "good" part I bought was a generic part.
So, what I have learned is if the part is less expensive than expected, it is the generic part, not the real deal.

[barrrf]

I don't have much to add - it's all already been said. But Id like to comment on the capability of China vs the economy of America.

China is fully capable of making quality material - the plastics you use daily, the thin steels and aluminums inside of electronics, ect ect. The problem is THEY DONT CARE about the quality if theyre not being instructed to make quality items. Steel for example, will almost always be pot steel UNLESS material certs are required for a job (even then you have to know who youre buying from).

But because the US has gotten greedy as a whole then large companies do what they have to to maintain profit margins to make investors happy to keep doors open to employees employed and snowball effect.

I believe its past the point of no return. Little places will pop up here and there and make good money but large corporations will never be 100% US anymore.

[DavidBoren]

What you said about China not caring about quality is true, to an extent. The places that get contracted by overseas companies looking to save money, they do not care because they have no reason to care.

The same American company could have found a Chinese factory that made good steel (or whatever) and demanded (with proper follow-up) the same quality as made in America. This all could be done, the logistics of it, importing the goods, hiring a foreign relations person(s), buying the exact same quality of products, ensuring the Chinese factory is making the same quality of products that you are known for, it could all still happen AND save the American company money simply because the Chinese factory doesn't have to recycle waste, spend money on safety equipment, spend money on keeping up to date certifications with environmental protection agencies or safety standards agencies, they don't have to pay into workers benefits programs... it's cheaper. The exact same quality of products can be made and imported cheaper...

But it's not just the Chinese who do not care. It's us, too. We don't care enough to force a change. We just accept that made in China means it's inferior, and we just accept a larger and larger percentage of products to be of lower quality under the guise of saving money.

In this day and age, I think that the quality of products is stabilizing due to the access to information. You can slander/bash a company online and cost it millions of dollars in damages to its reputation. So companies are a little more accountable for their products, because word travels fast. If you get a poor quality product and have to deal with poor support for that product, you are going to raise hell (not unlike ranting on public forums) about it. You will literally "warn" twice as many people NOT to shop somewhere or buy something due to a bad experience, than you will tell about a good experience. Bad news spreads faster than praise. And it's harder to erase from your reputation.

We just haven't been raising enough stink to initiate change. Sure, some individual companies get called out for the lack of quality in their products, and they either change, or fail. But it's just the individual companies, the rest continue until they get caught. And we allow it. So it's going to continue.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

The consumer looks at saving a buck and companies look at making a buck.

As long as there are consumers and competitive nature in businesses China will thrive on us. Don't sit around crying about it. Be smart and mindful of your purchases. What I love are the guys that scream 'Merica are the same guys that complain about the price of US created products.

If Johnny USA suspensions can save money by having a part machined in asia but still over see production quality then so be it. As long as its affordable people will buy it. Still a US part.

What I don't like is China dumping waste chemicals into products. Added asbestos in brake parts, Formaldehyde in toys, Formaldehyde in building materials, lead in food and mercury in feed. WTH?

[DavidBoren]

They aren't adding in more waste to their products. They just aren't taking as much out. It's not like they have barrels of waste they just sprinkle into production (that I am aware of). We have higher standards and require less of certain things we have found to be harmful or destructive. They, on the other hand, do not care about the levels of these chemicals in their products.

The people screaming 'Merica! piss me off the most. Patriotism baffles me. Don't take that the wrong way. I love the opportunities this coutry has afforded me. I joined the military in a time of war to do what I had to do to "earn" my freedoms. I didn't then, and don't now, believe in the war. But I went, nonetheless, and did my job. So let's not call my love of my country into question. But I will say this, if I had been born in Iraq 30 years ago, instead of Montana, I would have been shooting at the Americans carrying rifles in MY country... the same way I would be shooting at the Russians or Chinese if they came marching into Portland, Oregon (where I live now). Patriotism, as an ideal, is just dumb. Where you are born should have no influence on your personal pride.

[rustomatic]

If you don't like the competition, beat them. You just have to be willing to suffer until the market you'd like to serve cares, unless you also have the ability to make them care.

People like Mike Maier don't sit around waiting for someone to care about their product--they give people reasons to stand up and care. Then, they communicate...

(Disclaimer: I manufacture nothing but B.S. Literally. I teach people to understand and write their own language...)

Case in point: In the 1970s and '80s, people began to seriously covet Japanese products, and for good reason. They were just good, and they were just a bit different, in a way people liked. During this time, Taiwan began to join the (manufacturing) fray, and over time, Taiwan learned to make very good stuff--I would happily buy, with confidence, stuff made in Taiwan.

I've been into bicycles for too many decades (see the off-topic BMX thread), and watched this evolution take place (and bought several very good bicycles made in Taiwan). Japan moved on to the bigger and better, and let Taiwan take the reins. The Chinese will catch up, quality-wise, because they care to do so...

Anyhoo, just be the guy or girl who does the job...

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by DavidBoren

They aren't adding in more waste to their products. They just aren't taking as much out. It's not like they have barrels of waste they just sprinkle into production (that I am aware of). We have higher standards and require less of certain things we have found to be harmful or destructive. They, on the other hand, do not care about the levels of these chemicals in their products.

The people screaming 'Merica! piss me off the most. Patriotism baffles me. Don't take that the wrong way. I love the opportunities this coutry has afforded me. I joined the military in a time of war to do what I had to do to "earn" my freedoms. I didn't then, and don't now, believe in the war. But I went, nonetheless, and did my job. So let's not call my love of my country into question. But I will say this, if I had been born in Iraq 30 years ago, instead of Montana, I would have been shooting at the Americans carrying rifles in MY country... the same way I would be shooting at the Russians or Chinese if they came marching into Portland, Oregon (where I live now). Patriotism, as an ideal, is just dumb. Where you are born should have no influence on your personal pride.

oh whatever David! but that you for your service even if your not patriotic.

[Twoblackmarks...]

Here is Fish from Norway, sent to China for processing and then back to Europe and Norway.. Thats around the globe.. And it is FOOD!

Now it has started geting "too expensive" to send the fish to China, so now it is sent more and more to Vietnam.

What do we do when we run out of cheap countris to make stuff for us?? When we have forgotten how to make stuff ourselves and only know how to use the "add to cart" button on the web..??