Project WidowMaker - The Build Thread - Page 33 - Lateral-g Forums

Ron in SoCal · #**321** 05-29-2012, 09:27 PM

Tim ask Steve if the 4.185 will take an over bore or if it's one and done?

**Matt@BOS** · #**322** 05-29-2012, 10:18 PM

Tim, I asked Steve the same thing a couple of weeks ago when I dropped off an LS3 block with him. He recommended that I go with a 4.155" bore in a dry sleeved block. 4.185" is the max you can go with a dry sleeve, and I believe 4.210" is the largest you can go with a wet sleeve. I'm going with a 4.155" bore dry sleeve for a grand total of 447ish cubes. If you really want to hit the magic "454" number and still be able to clean the cylinders up later with an over-bore, you'll have to go with the wet sleeves, which require you to run Evan's Coolant and Water Wetter. Additionally, you'll need a set of Cometic's head gaskets, etc. After my experience with wet sleeves, I wouldn't take another chance with them.

As far as piston rock, and rod angles. I wouldn't worry too much. When I took my 454LS apart there was a little bit of wear on the piston coating, but nothing terrible. I like to air on the side of caution and after looking at everything I'm still retaining my 4.125" crank with a 6.125" rod.

Matt

The WidowMaker · #**323** 05-30-2012, 05:04 PM

thanks guys!

you are correct, 4.185 dry is once and done. but luckily these arent like an iron block where its trashed. i obviously hope nothing happens, but if it does chances are it wont be in all cylinders. at that point it would be about the same price to resleeve the one cylinder vs buying a new set of rings and pistons plus the charge to bore. id really like to be safe, but at this point the 454 badge would be nice. i guess its a gamble and i'll have to decide which way to go. id still like to hear opinions.

i called peterson today and talked tanks. it sounds like they agree that the stock pump isnt very good, but they still make it sound better than any wet sump pump/pan combo. he told me to call gary at ARE to discuss more and i will hopefully do that tomorrow. still deciding on whether i should pull the trigger and get it done.

i also have to decide on the holley hp vs the gm e38. most builders i have talked to like the holley. many claim that a base tune supplied by holley would be all that is needed. they say that even i could tweak the small stuff with a laptop.

im pretty lost at this point. a ton of money and lots of decisions. i would have thought that for this much money everything would be the best of the best. but i find myself trying to save some money on lesser parts and still being WAY over budget. the $14k 416 wegner offered me last year is sounding cheap......

dug · #**324** 05-30-2012, 07:11 PM

why not run a turbocharged small block? you can get the power an reliability with out spending nearly the $14k you mentioned. hell, even supercharged for that matter.... both would get you there.

The WidowMaker · #**325** 05-30-2012, 07:26 PM

the 14k was a complete motor with ecu, dyno and tune. theres no doubt this motor could be done cheaper. almost 1k in an oil pan and valve covers add up quick. plus, im hoping this motor is bullet proof and reliable when complete. id rather not have any headaches and i want it to start when i turn the key.

**Matt@BOS** · #**326** 05-30-2012, 09:56 PM

Got back to most of your question in that message I sent you. I just saw what you were hoping to get out of your motor, and wanted to add that I don't think you'll lose any reliability with the 454LS, at least relative to a supercharged/turbo car. Everything requires careful maintenance when driven hard.

Matt

Vegas69 · #**327** 05-30-2012, 10:12 PM

You think it's bad now, wait until you start using it.

The WidowMaker · #**328** 06-03-2012, 05:53 PM

thanks guys. this is not a cheap hobby. i just keep telling myself that the wife doesnt need a bigger house.

the motor plan is coming together nicely. i finally got a hold of erik at hke and i dont think theres anyone better to build this motor. just talking to him you can hear how well he knows these motors. the plan right now is still to do a 454 with afr 245 heads, super victor intake and accufab/fast 4150 tb. ill run all this with the holley hp dbc system. running the afr heads will also end up saving well over 1k. anything ls7 commands more cash. the super victor will also help the meshing of old and new technology and appearance. ive never liked the look of sb aluminum manifolds, but the spider look of the ls manifolds is insane.

im also leaning towards the dry sump setup with stock ls7 pump, pan, avaid baffle and peterson tank. its still a couple hundred more than an accusump and autokraft pan but i think its worth the price.

heres the only issue; will the super victor fit? my body is dropped about 3/8 and the motor is raised about 3/4". i have the various heights of manifolds written down, but they give heights from valley mounting surface to carb pad. im unsure of how these valley heights differ between sb, bb and ls (read, same height manifold different motor, does it sit higher, lower or the same). if i could figure this out i can search to see what fits with the other motors. although my motor is about 1 1/8" higher, the accufab tb is about 1 1/4" lower than a holley carb. and i hear the dominators are even taller.

Tim

The WidowMaker · #**329** 06-05-2012, 10:28 AM

going off online dimensions, it looks like the ls7 pan is going to be a tight fit. i have a little over 12" before the crossmember and it appears the ls7 sump is 11" long. im going to try and get some accurate measurements and see if this is going to work.

The WidowMaker · #**330** 06-11-2012, 03:48 PM

i picked up half of the dry sump today. redlinemotorsports does the motion camaros and buys ls7s and changes them over to wet sump for packaging reasons. 500 bucks got me a pump, pan, front cover and windage tray. wet sump stuff would have been over 700 for the same.

pump - 150
wet pan - 425
front cover - 135
windage tray - ?

so i think it was a pretty good deal. its not an optimal dry sump and i dont think i will seen any of the true dry sump benefits, but i think that a gravity fed oil pump and an additional 3 quarts of oil wont hurt.

still working with peterson on a drawing and a price for the tank. im having to run a sight tube on the side to check fluid levels since im hiding it up under the fender and wont be able to pull the top. im also planning on using a dual inlet style, but the second inlet will be my filler to top the tank off. my inital thought was to use an existing hole towards the bottom of their stock tank, run a 90 off of it and a piece of hose up the side. id add a nice cap to the line which would be both my fill and a visual on oil level. their thinking that although the fill would be slow with a -8, it would be impossible with needing to fight gravity.

id love to hear other suggestions that would make this damn thing cheaper.