1968 Camaro "Badmotorfinger" v2.2

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Some good and some bad happened today. Hopefully the bad created some good and prevented bad from happening later.



Apparently before the distributor was reinstalled recently we did not notice the lack of a bronze gear for use with the big solid roller cam. It now has the bronze gear in it as of today. Not sure exactly why the steel gear snapped today while just heading out for a cruise. Esp after working it hard last weekend for 75 miles or so including the AutoX.

So we put my girlfriend to work on the side of the road.



We still got to enjoy the 75* day for a little bit before sundown still and put a few miles on her. Will change the oil again (maybe twice) since the broken gear pieces are down there somewhere.

Still not sold on why the steel gear broke now... it had been in there for who knows how long before I acquired the car... then I put 500 pretty hard miles on it before we pulled the motor and freshened up... put it back together and it breaks in under 100 miles?

Thoughts?

Hey Dave - two things come to mind. First, it prob was going bad for a while so it's just bad timing (or good if you consider this could've happened at rttc). Second, don't forget you just found and fixed a throttle linkage prob which can allow for a little quicker spool up of the engine, i.e. more torque, quicker = harder gear mash. If it's any consolation, it happens alot. Ask me how I know...

[DFRESH]

Sucks. Good thing you got that figured out now---that would be a tough one to fix on the side of the 5 fwy. This is the stuff you go through when you are putting it on the road and driving it---you continue to find the weak links and will eventually conquer them all. Put a magnetic drain plug in the pan, and when you change the oil cut the filter and see what you've captured. 19 days and counting to RTTC trip.

These repairs------are makin me thirsty.

Doug

[mdprovee]

Dave, sounds like the same I luck I am having. Keep your head up, and keep fighting

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Hey Dave - two things come to mind. First, it prob was going bad for a while so it's just bad timing (or good if you consider this could've happened at rttc). Second, don't forget you just found and fixed a throttle linkage prob which can allow for a little quicker spool up of the engine, i.e. more torque, quicker = harder gear mash. If it's any consolation, it happens alot. Ask me how I know...

That's what I'm hoping Ron. I just try to subscribe to the "coincidences are usually not coincidental" mantra and find the cause-effect for something like this. Not always possible, I know.

One idea from one of Rich's friends (experienced car/engine guy) was that there could be a bad combo of cam end play and vertical placement of the distributor to cause uneven gear wear that he saw on the old steer gear. (The cam does have a cam buttom)

Originally Posted by DFRESH

Sucks. Good thing you got that figured out now---that would be a tough one to fix on the side of the 5 fwy. This is the stuff you go through when you are putting it on the road and driving it---you continue to find the weak links and will eventually conquer them all. Put a magnetic drain plug in the pan, and when you change the oil cut the filter and see what you've captured. 19 days and counting to RTTC trip.

These repairs------are makin me thirsty.

Doug

Exactly. Could have been a weekend killer later this month. And yep we've got the magnetic drain plug in and hoping it pulls all that shiat out.

Who knows what else we'll find in the next 19 days!

Pour me a beer?

Originally Posted by mdprovee

Dave, sounds like the same I luck I am having. Keep your head up, and keep fighting

Yeah Mike I hope your stuff turns around too buddy. You bout ready and all dialed in to make the trip?

[Vegas69]

Must not like the new name..... ha ha Your old pal, old buddy Todd has a few thoughts.

1. Your gear mesh doesn't look right. The distributor looks like it needs to be deeper. They make slip collar distributors just for this problem.

2. When the engine is cold, you need to take it easy. Your oil pressure is high and that is when a majority of the stress takes it's toll on the gear. How much oil pressure do you have when you first start driving and row through the gears?

3. A bronze gear is the wrong direction unless you want to swap it every year. A bronze gear is only to be used on a billet gear. Do you have the cam card so you can reference the manufacturer and cam gear type? I'd go with a melonized gear.

4. If you decide to ignore my advice on the gear. I'd block your oil filter bypasss. In fact, I'd block it either way. Remember what took out the bearings on my first engine? A bronze distributor gear that wore and sheered. When the engine is cold, GM designed the oil system to bypass the oil filter some. That takes any debris and sends it directly through your cam, rod, and main bearings. No good. If your engine doesn't have a blocked bypass now, you need to keep a close eye on the engine for a while. Inspect the oil filters and I'd change the oil a couple times. Don't drive it anymore unitl this is done. What a blocked bypass does is make ALL the oil be filtered ALL the time. You should switch to a K&N filter or Moroso high flo and keep the engine under 3k until the oil get some temp in it. How do you know? The oil pressure starts to drop. If it's normally 75 at 2500 cold then wait until it's 60 to start driving normally.

These high performance motors need alot of maintenence. You should be checking the timing on a regular basis. If you start to lose timing, you will know the gear is wearing again.

[waynieZ]

I'm using a Filter Mag on my engine from the first start up. When I bought it I cut t he filter open and found nothing in there but I blocked the bypass and figure its cheap insurance.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Must not like the new name..... ha ha Your old pal, old buddy Todd has a few thoughts.

I think you're right! and I was hoping you'd chime in.

Originally Posted by Vegas69

1. Your gear mesh doesn't look right. The distributor looks like it needs to be deeper. They make slip collar distributors just for this problem.

That's exactly what Rich's neighbor/friend was telling us. He said use an adjustable slip collar, or even machine the existing collar down to fit.

Originally Posted by Vegas69

2. When the engine is cold, you need to take it easy. Your oil pressure is high and that is when a majority of the stress takes it's toll on the gear. How much oil pressure do you have when you first start driving and row through the gears?

Oil pressure is betw 60-70ish I believe on start up then settles down a bit.

Originally Posted by Vegas69

3. A bronze gear is the wrong direction unless you want to swap it every year. A bronze gear is only to be used on a billet gear. Do you have the cam card so you can reference the manufacturer and cam gear type? I'd go with a melonized gear.

I do have the cam card and it's a Stahl billet cam, which is why we threw the bronze in there.

Originally Posted by Vegas69

4. If you decide to ignore my advice on the gear. I'd block your oil filter bypasss. In fact, I'd block it either way. Remember what took out the bearings on my first engine? A bronze distributor gear that wore and sheered. When the engine is cold, GM designed the oil system to bypass the oil filter some. That takes any debris and sends it directly through your cam, rod, and main bearings. No good. If your engine doesn't have a blocked bypass now, you need to keep a close eye on the engine for a while. Inspect the oil filters and I'd change the oil a couple times. Don't drive it anymore unitl this is done. What a blocked bypass does is make ALL the oil be filtered ALL the time. You should switch to a K&N filter or Moroso high flo and keep the engine under 3k until the oil get some temp in it. How do you know? The oil pressure starts to drop. If it's normally 75 at 2500 cold then wait until it's 60 to start driving normally.

These high performance motors need alot of maintenence. You should be checking the timing on a regular basis. If you start to lose timing, you will know the gear is wearing again.

I'm not sure what our current status is on the bypass. I'll talk to Rich about this before it gets driven again. This has me a bit worried.

[Vegas69]

GM runs melonized on billet core. A billet cam can have a press on cast iron gear. You may want to call the cam manufacturer. I did some serious research when my gear sheered and found the melonized to be the safest solution in most situations. It has longer service life than a bronze gear but should sheer BEFORE the cam gear. Factory cars ran a cast iron cam and distributor gear.

If you decide to stick with bronze, checking timing is important and so is the blocked bypass. One instant indicator of timing loss is a lower idle speed hot.

[fleetus macmullitz]

This issue is probably not due to the name change ...

[Vegas69]

One more thing while I'm thinking about it. A solid roller requires high spring pressures to operate properly. The cam is dependent on windage slinging oil up on the camshaft lobes for lubrication. Your idle speed should be at 1000 rpm or higher for proper lube. When the car is started cold, I'm sure it doesn't like to idle. You should keep the rpm up to lube the camshaft right away.