Investing 102

[redefined]

Where do you see a companies Total Return?

For a 401k/Roth through an employer it seems the only options are mutual funds, pick one, am I wrong? Vanguard is the one I'm in the process of signing up with. Not sure I see another option other than funds/trust/bond.

I also use a Fidelity AMEX credit card. Every looked into it? It's nifty, instead of getting points that you can blow on the newest iPad or Skymiles program it places money directly into your Fidelity investment account. The more I spend the more I invest in myself! yay!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by redefined

Where do you see a companies Total Return?

For a 401k/Roth through an employer it seems the only options are mutual funds, pick one, am I wrong? Vanguard is the one I'm in the process of signing up with. Not sure I see another option other than funds/trust/bond.

I also use a Fidelity AMEX credit card. Every looked into it? It's nifty, instead of getting points that you can blow on the newest iPad or Skymiles program it places money directly into your Fidelity investment account. The more I spend the more I invest in myself! yay!

I use Schwab and they have a page for it... not sure where your accounts are or where you could see that very important historical information but I'd ask someone wherever you hold accounts -- and or have online availability.

[Vortech404]

If you go to www.dividendinvestor.com put in the stock ticker
And read the bottom 3 lines and in will tell you 12 month,3 year and
5 year total return.

John

[68ZClone]

For any time period:

http://buyupside.com/stockreturncalc...ncalcinput.php

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Vortech404

If you go to www.dividendinvestor.com put in the stock ticker
And read the bottom 3 lines and in will tell you 12 month,3 year and
5 year total return.

John

Doesn't get much simpler than that! Thank you.

[XLexusTech]

I know Greg and others are not big fans of managed funds.. I get why, many are basically ways for the big investment houses to use your $$ to take fees..... however they are not all bad.. their are a few that are really good options for the inactive investor..

How about VFIAX for example... super low expense ratio... and yield and growth pretty damn good.. just throwing it out there its one of my staples and for those with some $$ they want to put in without much risk.. a good fund should be on the option list.. theoretically you could do this yourself.. but with this low of a cost.. why bother...

I am pretty deep into this kind of investment.. I am now looking for other options (read looking for income/growth stocks) but i wanted to put this out there for others..

1 Year 32.33
3 Year 16.14
5 Year 17.94
10 Year 7.39
Since Inception 4.41
11/13/2000
500 Index Fund Adm 32.33% 16.14% 17.94% 7.39% 4.41%

[GregWeld]

So here's why this kind of stock/fund/bond recommendation is so difficult.


The fund you mention (VFIAX) has a minimum buy in of $2500 and 500 minimum for adding to that fund. Further --- if it's in a Company managed 401 it might not even be available as an option.


That's not to say it's good, bad, or indifferent.... I'm just saying that people will run around looking up someone else's recommendation --- get all set to put that on their list - only to find out that they missed some very critical details..... such as the 2500 minimum basic investment. It can be lower than that if it's inside an IRA then it has a 1000 minimum -- and then 500 subsequent investment.

Many "funds" are also "closed end" --- they're CLOSED to outside investors - even though you can find all manor of information about them as if you could actually invest in them.

So these things are better left to be used as a good examples ---- versus a "buy this it's great" idea. Yeah - it might be great... but it also just might be completely made out of unobtainium.... LOL

I believe this particular fund is closed except to people that are already invested in it. Given that it's "status" is "Available to existing shareholders".

[GregWeld]

So let me further explain my "disdain" for Funds.... The above mentioned fund has a "decent" performance. It almost mirrors the S&P500 --- almost exactly --- usually the S&P 500 is what fund managers are looking to "BEAT" --- otherwise they're just considered average and they get looking for work...


All a person has to do -- is to look at the holdings of this fund --- and duplicate it's top ten holdings (if you have that kind of funds to invest)... and you can do so with NO FEES of any kind... no minimums... it's open to anyone at any time - and you can choose to re-invest the dividends or just have them put as cash into your account... in other words -- you can build this same fund --- and have some control over what you want to do and how.... and there's no "expense" associated with it. So then - why just buy a "fund".


Here's their top ten holdings....



AAPL
Apple Inc
Computers & Peripherals


XOM
Exxon Mobil Corporation
Oil, Gas & Consumable Fuels

GOOG
Google, Inc. Class A
Internet Software & Services

MSFT
Microsoft Corporation
Software

GE
General Electric Co
Industrial Conglomerates

JNJ
Johnson & Johnson
Pharmaceuticals

CVX
Chevron Corp
Oil, Gas & Consumable Fuels

PG
Procter & Gamble Co
Household Products

JPM
JPMorgan Chase & Co
Diversified Financial Services

WFC
Wells Fargo & Co
Commercial Banks



So here's my point ---- they probably have 100 plus companies in this fund --- but my guess is that the top ten did all the heavy lifting (performance) and the bottom 20 pull their averages down... so why have the bottom 20 in your portfolio?? Most funds are just giant pools of "average". We strive to be better than average don't we??

So here's another "issue" I have with INVESTING 102 and funds... and that's the research and the details. Now -- I've been doing this a long time --- and I can sort thru lists and details and pick stuff apart in a nanosecond... but I'm not so sure a lot of you can do this and might get fooled by the big numbers and not parse out the larger details. So for example I just did a sort research via Schwab for all the MORNINGSTAR 4 star rated funds.. and then I sorted them by "returns since inception" ----- killer! I should get a list of the very best returns right? So the top one has a 20% "return since inception".... holy cow -- I want in that bad boy -- it's killing it. Well -- but it only started in 2009 --- right when the market turned UP -- and actually - 20% since then is pretty average performance. The "since inception date" is very small --- and how many would have picked up on that?

Then --- once you start to have money in 4 or 5 funds ---- what's your overlap?? How many are going to go look at what the fun is made up of. Microsoft can be in a TECH fund -- it can also be in an S&P Large Cap fund -- or a Large cap blend fund... so while you'd think you were "diversified" you may in fact have a bunch of duplication.

So for me --- funds are "fine" if that's all you have available to you -- and you just want to be investing thru work.... and you don't want to do a dang thing for yourself. But that's why we have 360 pages of posts here... it's about doing a minimum amount of work (which is actually fun -- it's really more like shopping) and building your own "mini fund".

[glassman]

And thats why its called "working smarter, not harder..."

[XLexusTech]

well let me put real time facts to my position on funds. in 10 years I am up 30+ on my funds.. includes deducting for expense fees.. (for which i keep my ratio below .10%)
this is not employee sponsored but post tax cash investment. ANYONE can do this.. the fund I quoted is an Admiral fund the same fund non Adminral VFINX has a 3K minimum investment and a slightly higher fee...all of my funds started at between 100-3K as NON admiral... and i moved them into admiral as they grew.

My point is that Funds can and should be part of a smart portfolio.

I have another pure stock account were i apply the principles here.. several DRIPS all smart names.. APPL, JNJ, KO, MCD XOM, CVX and so on... over the same period its up 17%.

then i have Gamblers... FB... for example which to date are doing real well for me.
My point here really is... in my opinion its a portfolio that has the principles of good funds+ individual stocks which are solid DRIPs and shooting star throw aways money looking for a good run.. is the way to go for me..