427ci LS2 sleeved, dry sump oil pump, engine build & install, 69 Camaro

[PTAddict]

Originally Posted by DaleTx

I am very glad that I installed a low oil pressure warning light so I had early warning of low oil pressure. This saved my engine from catastrophic damage. A.C. replaced all the rod bearings and main bearings and I was good to go!

That's an important observation Dale - no matter how well you think you've prepared your car, stuff can go wrong, and immediate notification of something bad can save both expensive parts and your own ass. Very smart to have put that in, and a good lesson for me and, I suspect, a lot of the rest of us.

[Sieg]

.....it has to do with the timing chain tensioner.

Well......it's been over an hour and a half.

[Che70velle]

Sieg, I know where this is going...

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by Sieg

Well......it's been over an hour and a half.

When the oil pan was removed to check the rod bearings and main bearings... we found a surprise. The parts shown in the picture were laying in the bottom of the oil pan!





Here is a picture showing where the parts came from. From the research I have done... this is the new design timing chain "tensioner" that is used on the LS3 engines.




You can see where the plastic cracked and the part failed.




This is a picture of an older design timing chain "damper" that was used on the LS2 engines.




Since the LS3 "tensioner" failed I did some internet research and apparently I am not alone in having a failure with the new LS3 "tensioner". I discussed this problem with the engine builder and he said most of the LS builds he has done used the LS2 style "damper". My engine was one of the first to use the new LS3 design "tensioner".

We have come to the conclusion that since my engine has a larger cam than a stock engine this may have contributed to the failure. With the larger lift cam this may have caused excessive stress on the tensioner.

A.C. installed the LS2 damper rather than the LS3 tensioner for the rebuild. He also installed a new timing chain. No telling how long the engine had run with no tensioner.

From what I have found out... The LS2 damper is the way to go if you run a larger cam and higher RPM. The LS2 damper a very simple design with no moving parts.

I don't want to cause a panic that all engines with LS3 "tensioners" will fail... I just wanted to share what happened to me. I'm glad that my timing chain did not break. I feel very fortunate that I pulled the engine and discovered this problem early on. The good news is that the LS2 damper bolted right in using the same hole pattern as the LS3 tensioner.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Che70velle

Sieg, I know where this is going...

[GregWeld]

SO really -- you were lucky TWICE --- the low oil light -- and that item caused you to find the tensioner issue.

You must be living really right!

Welcome to racin' huh!?!?!

My last "expense" was all due to a stinky little valve tip part...

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

SO really -- you were lucky TWICE --- the low oil light -- and that item caused you to find the tensioner issue.

You must be living really right!

Welcome to racin' huh!?!?!

My last "expense" was all due to a stinky little valve tip part...

Lol... yes I was very lucky, It could have been much worse! Now I don't feel so bad about all the work pulling the engine.

Agreed... chalk it up as "racing". When you start running the track days and pushing the car hard, you find weaknesses very quickly.

[DaleTx]

Originally Posted by PTAddict

That's a very small world, because I wrote substantial pieces of the Inventor kernel code back when. Who do you work for? PM me if you think that's better ...

Scott

Hey Scott... I am a design engineer at Columbia Machine in Vancouver. If your out that way stop by and I'll show you some "inventor" designed machinery. Previously I used Pro Engineer software, now I prefer "inventor".

[rickpaw]

Originally Posted by DaleTx

Thanks Rick… it was a very fun track. I will be back next year for sure. I’ll bet your not missing the rain here. Today it's 57 degrees, gray and rainy all day.

Scott, it's a small world. I had no idea you were one of the guys behind Autodesk. I use Inventor 2014 Professional 3D-CAD software in my work. Great stuff!

Hi Dale, I'm glad that there's no major damage to the engine. Makes me think twice about going to track days. I only have a stock 5.3 in my 67 right now. Oh well, it's just money right?

I missed the scenery of the NW, but not the rain. We had a "cold front" here in Houston over the weekend. The high temps dipped to the low 70s.

Scott, I remembered seeing your car on the lift at Steve's back around 2010. We also use Autodesk extensively at my work as well (3D at the last employer).

[DaleTx]

The car is back up on the jack stands…. propane heater fired up… and I’m ready to work on the winter upgrades!



I have been reading a lot of posts on here recently about safety for pro-touring cars, and the new street car events coming up in 2014 (USCA & ASCS). I have been contemplating what direction to go with my car in terms of “safety features”. Both USCA & ASCS are currently working to define the classes, and rules for their street car events. After reading lots of posts about this I have made a decision of how to set up my car.

My car will be purpose built “pro-touring style”, to allow me to drive comfortably on the street (around town, or on long trips)... and to drive on road courses at HPDE events in my area (PIR, The Ridge Motorsports Park, and ORP). I want to drive on the street, and hang out with my friends at the track. I have the most fun with my car when I’m on the track. It’s fun to go fast on a closed course and see what the car will do (legally) in a safe environment. The direction I'm going is to build a multi-purpose car and make it as safe as possible for both types of driving.

Currently my car has upgraded brakes; chassis mods; solid body bushings; sub-frame connectors; driveline loop; fabricated tubular a-arms; front and rear sway bars; modified suspension; 4 point roll bar; Sparco seats with side bolsters; 5 point seat belts; and on board fire extinguisher.


Here is my plan for this winters upgrades:

Personal safety equipment to purchase:
Driver suit.
Gloves.
Shoes.
Helmet set up with Hans, or similar type device.

Upgrades to chassis/brakes:
New front spindles with higher strength, and higher load rated bearings.
Install ducting to help cool front brakes.
Add removable door bar tubes that attach to the 4-point roll bar.

Upgrades to engine and trans:
Modify front drive to prevent the serpentine belt from rolling off the pulleys and taking out the dry sump pump belt (this happened last summer!).
Replace timing gears and chain to new Cloyes LS Z-Racing set up.
Replace GM ZR1 LS9 hydraulic throw-out bearing with Katech HD Tilton unit.

Also… I will inspect critical parts, and check bolt tightness on a regular basis… and limit my top speed to 135 mph (in my car that’s 6,700 RPM in 4th gear). I have noticed when I get over 135 MPH the aerodynamics become an issue. Up to 135 MPH the car is stable, and rock solid... so 135 mph will be my own personal speed limit (plenty fast to have fun!). At some point I could do aero upgrades... but not now.



On to the winter upgrades.
Right before the SEMA show this year... I went for a drive and my throw-out bearing started making a loud squealing sound when I pushed the clutch in. Yesterday I pulled the trans to check it out.

This is what I found











I was pretty disappointed to see the $300 ZR1 OEM throw-out bearing fail after only one season of use! I called Jason at Katech and he said they never used to have a problem with these bearings… but recently have seen several fail. He said something changed with the OEM supplier and he suspects the grease melts out, overheats the bearing, and melts the plastic slider (I would be curious if Carl C. or others, have input on the bearing failure). My bearing fell apart when I pulled it out (balls fell out on the ground)… the slider was melted… and the bearing appeared to be very dry (no grease). Jason said he has seen this scenario before with guys that track their cars.


The fix

Since I bought my ZR1 twin disc clutch kit from Katech (2 years ago)... they have come up with a heavy duty hydraulic throw-out bearing setup that fits the T56 transmission. The new HD set up is recommended for guys tracking their cars. This bearing has no spring, and only contacts the clutch forks when the clutch is pushed in. The slider is aluminum instead of plastic... and the bearing is a heavy duty sealed bearing.


Pics of the new throw-out bearing set up








New bearing height is the same as the OEM unit










I didn't think I would be pulling the trans again so soon. Driving on the track is hard on things. I'll just keep working towards making the car as bulletproof as possible.

Thanks to Ron S. and the other guys on here for all the great discussion on safety!