Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by SLO_Z28

Good call on those springs/spacers. Its what I use. 650 is a little light on the spring though, you might want to step up to at least 750. I wouldn't worry about welding the springs, they're working fine for me.

Very cool, thanks for the info James!! I figured 650's only because I knocked 200 lbs off the front end. What do you think?

Wonder if any of you or anybody else can answer this question. If you cut a coil off a conventional spring does it raise the spring rate?

I have been told yes from one and no from another.

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Ahh you remembered. OK, so let me fill in. There was a total of three Buttonwillow trips last year. The first one was a disaster because the motor leaked oil from just about everywhere. That day at Buttonwillow My fastest time was 2:18 and after two sessions packed it up and left due to oilleaks. Sent motor back, leaks got fixed and then she was good to go. Next trip to Buttonwillow laid down some 2:15's and all was well but car had a push.......Which now leads me to my buddy Vince at Dreamspeedmotors.



After my second stint at Buttonwillow I went to Dreamspeedmotors for some advice and to ask them if they would sponsor me. They agreed to help me out and so they set the car up for my third trip to Buttonwillow. My word to all was that after Dreamspeedmotors was done with tuning the car that I would lay down 2:10 lap times. Dreamspeed readusted front sway bar and raised the front leaf spring perch mount. Sure enough I knocked 5 seconds off my time and ran a couple of low 2:10 lap times at Buttonwillow 13CW config with one 2:10.3 and another 2:10.1. BTW, a big thanks to Vince.......always thinking and always taking care of my needs within a small budget.

Looking forward to next year!!



Love the engine now. So far so good and all you can do is cross your fingers.

Hey Gae - I was only bustin' yer nuts about the motor leak. You know I've been a fan, and I know what PIA it was when you had to crate the montser back up and ship it out, not to mention the wasted trac day!

And there still more to the journey, right! The brakes that never went on for all the right reasons, the 'other' set of Boze wheels you almost went with, the consideration for a fender stretch (which would of busted the budget). And through all that you, posted vids of passing the field and lowering your track times.

I think you and Vince & Crew have done a great job and given me lots to think about in my build! Props Bro...

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Very cool, thanks for the info James!! I figured 650's only because I knocked 200 lbs off the front end. What do you think?

Wonder if any of you or anybody else can answer this question. If you cut a coil off a conventional spring does it raise the spring rate?

I have been told yes from one and no from another.

You might give Cannon Racecraft a call. They manufacture custom springs for numerous applications.

I don't think the rate changes as it is more wire diameter and other build spec dimensions.

With bikes the critical measurements when determening spring rates are static sag (amount vehicle sags under it's own weight) and ride sag (amount of sag with rider and vehicle) the primary objective is to keep the shock valving in the sweet spot of the stroke over the majority of the course. Off-road bikes they have three stages of compression valving, if the spring allows the shock to ride too low into the mid-stroke the suspension get harsh and corner grip is impacted. I'm not sure how progressive valving is in vehicles though.

I do know that Cannon RC can build springs to your spec and needs.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Ahh you remembered. OK, so let me fill in. There was a total of three Buttonwillow trips last year. The first one was a disaster because the motor leaked oil from just about everywhere. That day at Buttonwillow My fastest time was 2:18 and after two sessions packed it up and left due to oilleaks. Sent motor back, leaks got fixed and then she was good to go. Next trip to Buttonwillow laid down some 2:15's and all was well but car had a push.......Which now leads me to my buddy Vince at Dreamspeedmotors.



After my second stint at Buttonwillow I went to Dreamspeedmotors for some advice and to ask them if they would sponsor me. They agreed to help me out and so they set the car up for my third trip to Buttonwillow. My word to all was that after Dreamspeedmotors was done with tuning the car that I would lay down 2:10 lap times. Dreamspeed readusted front sway bar and raised the front leaf spring perch mount. Sure enough I knocked 5 seconds off my time and ran a couple of low 2:10 lap times at Buttonwillow 13CW config with one 2:10.3 and another 2:10.1. BTW, a big thanks to Vince.......always thinking and always taking care of my needs within a small budget.

Looking forward to next year!!



Love the engine now. So far so good and all you can do is cross your fingers.

Actually I was talking about the changes made...DSE bar, modified supension mounting points, weight loss and driver changes. but thank you for the props.

We will build it so your kid can hop in and kill a track.

Originally Posted by Sieg

You might give Cannon Racecraft a call. They manufacture custom springs for numerous applications.

I don't think the rate changes as it is more wire diameter and other build spec dimensions.

With bikes the critical measurements when determening spring rates are static sag (amount vehicle sags under it's own weight) and ride sag (amount of sag with rider and vehicle) the primary objective is to keep the shock valving in the sweet spot of the stroke over the majority of the course. Off-road bikes they have three stages of compression valving, if the spring allows the shock to ride too low into the mid-stroke the suspension get harsh and corner grip is impacted. I'm not sure how progressive valving is in vehicles though.

I do know that Cannon RC can build springs to your spec and needs.

The rate will increase and its kinda hard to put your brain around.

If you remove a coil from the total height the spring rate will increase. Its a cumulative effect of ALL the coils together when calculated.
http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm

good info here.
http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...il+spring+rate

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Sieg

You might give Cannon Racecraft a call. They manufacture custom springs for numerous applications.

I don't think the rate changes as it is more wire diameter and other build spec dimensions.

With bikes the critical measurements when determening spring rates are static sag (amount vehicle sags under it's own weight) and ride sag (amount of sag with rider and vehicle) the primary objective is to keep the shock valving in the sweet spot of the stroke over the majority of the course. Off-road bikes they have three stages of compression valving, if the spring allows the shock to ride too low into the mid-stroke the suspension get harsh and corner grip is impacted. I'm not sure how progressive valving is in vehicles though.

I do know that Cannon RC can build springs to your spec and needs.

sorry got cut off.....custom springs are the best way to go cause they are tailored to your specific vehicle, weight, wheel rate and usage. How are his prices sieg?

thanks for the info,

vince

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

sorry got cut off.....custom springs are the best way to go cause they are tailored to your specific vehicle, weight, wheel rate and usage. How are his prices sieg?

thanks for the info,

vince

Vince,

Give them a call and get a quote, my only experience is with KTM off-road bikes and their pricing has been comparable to the OEM WP Suspension springs. Friends have put their springs through serious off-road events (100 mile, 3-5 hour stuff) including 24 hour events with good results.

http://www.cannonracecraft.com/

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal

Hey Gae - I was only bustin' yer nuts about the motor leak. You know I've been a fan, and I know what PIA it was when you had to crate the montser back up and ship it out, not to mention the wasted trac day!

And there still more to the journey, right! The brakes that never went on for all the right reasons, the 'other' set of Boze wheels you almost went with, the consideration for a fender stretch (which would of busted the budget). And through all that you, posted vids of passing the field and lowering your track times.

I think you and Vince & Crew have done a great job and given me lots to think about in my build! Props Bro...

Man Ron, you've got a great memmory, and yes sir, the journey never really does end does it!!

Thanks for the props, bud!!

Originally Posted by Sieg

You might give Cannon Racecraft a call. They manufacture custom springs for numerous applications.

I don't think the rate changes as it is more wire diameter and other build spec dimensions.

With bikes the critical measurements when determening spring rates are static sag (amount vehicle sags under it's own weight) and ride sag (amount of sag with rider and vehicle) the primary objective is to keep the shock valving in the sweet spot of the stroke over the majority of the course. Off-road bikes they have three stages of compression valving, if the spring allows the shock to ride too low into the mid-stroke the suspension get harsh and corner grip is impacted. I'm not sure how progressive valving is in vehicles though.

I do know that Cannon RC can build springs to your spec and needs.

Thats pretty interesting information. As soon as Vince gets a break we are going to have to discuss shocks. Thanks for the input.

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Thats pretty interesting information. As soon as Vince gets a break we are going to have to discuss shocks. Thanks for the input.

You're welcome!

Even if the shocks aren't progessively valved I'd think you'd still want to keep the car riding in the "meat" (20% top/60% mid/20% bottom) of the stroke. Something to consider in the never-ending qwest for the ultimate track day set-up

The spring rate calculator that Vince posted was good info for me.

[Track Junky]

So Phase 3 of my build begins. I installed my Afco front springs a couple weeks ago and my Forgelines and rear NT-01's showed up today so I got them mounted up.
I originally ordered them with a polished lip but then called back after about a week and told them all satin black. Going to shoot for a little more sinister look.
Next step is to take the subframe and raise it approximately 2" up into the floor so that I could still have ample travel while still keeping the car low. Then I will work on tying the satin black wheels in with the paint scheme.

I weighed the wheels and the fronts are 16 lbs and the rears are 18 lbs. I hope my scale isn't off because I'm really liking those numbers.

[coolwelder62]

Look's Awesome.This car would Rock w/a VRP sub frame under it.