Trakon's new C28 to be at SEMA.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I will be very intersted in the finished project. There are so many issues and potential sacrifices that must be accepted to do the C5 install, I will be very curious to see how they deal issues. It looks like they raised the suspension in the front, to lower the body. Which means they would have to do the same thing in the rear. Which makes the torque tbe very high in the body making for a very tall hump. I wonder if they strteched the torque tube, or set the motor under the dash. It appears they are using the original Corvette front k member which requires the engine to sit behind the wheels, which put's the engine under the dash, which creates it's own issues and sacrifices. I spent a lot of time thinking about a C5 install, it was the original plan for Prodigy. I'll be curious to see how someone with their skills and engineering abilities deals with things.

If anyone gets anymore pictures I would love to see them. This is probably the car I am most interested in seeing at SEMA

[Mean 69]

I think what irks me the most (and this is in no way directed at you, Tyler), but it seems like all of the late-comers to the market feel like they need to use Corvette parts to make a superior car. It is actually a bit humorous, and in my not-so-humble-opinion, really shows the lack of creativity, or more importantly, the lack of engineering prowess by these folks. While it is true that the Corvette is a very well engineered piece, and one can't argue too much with the nice weight distribution, there are still lots of compromises to the setup. Think about it, it is "still" an American built car, and the last time I looked, with the possible exception of the new Ford GT, and the yet to be released Z06, the big three have never built a full on no-compromise car. Certainly not one in volume. To make things even worse, I have yet to see one of the 'vette derived setups done "right," though the 21st Century setup seems to be a lot closer than the others.

I suppose it is tough to argue with the marketing appeal of such a deal though, most folks assume that if there are Corvette parts on the car, well, it'll handle just like a Corvette. The only way that the performance questions will be answered is with a head to head competition, I'd guess that most of these folks would not stick their necks out in such a venue.

Tyler, you guys are on the right path, don't change a thing. There is always going to be someone that will rip off your ideas, not a whole lot you can do about that. I'd suggest that you build YOUR car, and enjoy it as such, as you guys can fit it in. It will be a real treasure when it is done, and it will still be the "first" of the breed.

Mark

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by Mean 69

The only way that the performance questions will be answered is with a head to head competition, I'd guess that most of these folks would not stick their necks out in such a venue.

Mark

What would such a head to head competition entail? We could be interested in trying out luck. I think it would be cool to get some different designs together. And if we got our ass kicked, at least when the dust settled we would all know what works.

We are no rocket scientist on suspension. We just went with some simple logic. Make it very rigid so the suspension can work, get the center of gravity very low, put on a LOT of tire with proper front to rear stager with good aspect ratios, use light weight unsprung components and make the car light with good weight balance.

[DCreations]

I see tyler with his 50/50 doing that!!!!! He seems like the only guy being down for testing his car to the fullest. I hope he can get his car done next year

[Teetoe_Jones]

Thank you guys for the support and encouraging words. We are trying to do the no-comprimise effort on doing the C5 chassis with 50/50. We did all the items Frank thought about, like the 6-1/2" engine setback into the firewall, making the pedal assembly an interesting problem, the use of full fabricated perimeter frame that makes use of the F/R aluminum cradles so we wouldn't change the susension geometry at all, you know, stuff like that. Last few issues to resolve are to widen the rear 1/4 panels, and re-work the innder frame rails.
The way I see 50/50 emerging is- late to the party, but still years ahead in terms of build quality and creativity. We have to test my car out on the track, it was meant to drive the twisted roads of Laguna Seca, and tear up the Pony Express.
I hope to have some updates of us moving along with the car after SEMA.
Tyler

[Al Moreno]

I spoke with the builder "Harvey" at Trokan, seems like a really nice guy. He was kind enough to e-mail me the pics which I forwarded to Scott. If you look at the latest issue of Hotrod, There's a rendering of the finish project. I think the concept is that of taking allot of the styling cues from the new C6 and incorporating them to the project, C6 door handles, front fascia, the concave side section witch is what your seeing on the bottom half of the doors, etc.
Frank, the car wont be completed for this year SEMA. Harvey will bring some other cool projects. I think Prodigy is going to be one of the cars to look for this year!
Tyler if you car gets complete by next year, you might still be the first to complete a C5 Camaro. Either way, it's still an awesome car!
One last thing, This is one of the friendliest environments that I have found on the internet. For that I congratulate you guys. I invited Harvey to join this site and bring some of his expertise to the mix.
I hope this last comment is taken in the light that it is meant. Not for anybody to take offense but, as a suggestion. Ask yourself if you were him and read some of the comment posted, would you want to join? I think that one of Scott objectives is to grow this site. It makes it tougher when..... Remember that no status was ever erected for a critic, "Here, children is a guy who found something wrong with everything". People have different themes and goals with there projects. Not for us to.....

[ProdigyCustoms]

The Hot Rod feature said it was being built to be there. Well it is disappointing it will not be there.

[Mean 69]

What would such a head to head competition entail? We could be interested in trying out luck. I think it would be cool to get some different designs together. And if we got our ass kicked, at least when the dust settled we would all know what works.

Frank, it's a great question, and one that I have been thinking about for a while. There are some pretty good first attmepts out there, some of the shoot outs that some mag's did in the past were pretty good. I think the issue is that the variety, and specific "influence" or intended use of all of the projects would make it difficult to level the playing field?

While our primary goal is to build the best performing cars on road courses, we also recognize that civility is important for the majority of customers, well, at least "moderate civility." As such, there'd probably have to be some form of subjective, "ease of driving," or something of note like that. I don't follow closely, but some of the drag events that feature max effort street cars require a 25 mile cruise, something like that would be good to incoporate.

From a performance standpoint, well, I think you'd have to have all of the usual suspects (1/4 mile, slalom, 60-0 braking, max steady state G's), but it would also be important to include a road course, or at least, cone course that ties all of the performance elements together. Scoring would be interesting too, how do you scale such an event? Normalizing points to the top performer of each event is one way, but this would not work well with a "long" event such as a road course (what I mean, is if one guy pulls a 10 second pass in the quarter, you could figure pretty closely how to scale the others, but on a 2 minute lap, a few seconds is a HUGE advantage but doesn't show up as proportionally significant). It is not obvious how to pull all of this together, and invariably, there would be differences in the cars that would sway the results (and form excuses...). Maybe a new thread to gain people's ideas on how to do this?

Depending upon how things go, we are strongly considering taking one or two cars to the Open Track Challenge, it seems to be about the best yardstick for the types of cars my outfit is intent on building, although they did not run it last year due to lack of participation.

He seems like the only guy being down for testing his car to the fullest.

I can assure you, he is not the only guy interested in doing this.

Sorry for the highjack, and I too hope the gentleman building the car will join the forum to add his insight.
Mark

[ProdigyCustoms]

So RSE basically? If we really want it to be on the cars suspension and handling merits, it seems it would require a hired gun pro driver to level the field, otherwise, drivers could play into the results big time. I do not know if the open coarse or 1/4 mile would be a fair as HP could vary those numbers. Now on a tight cone coarse, HP would not be as significant a factor.
I will talk to Steve. I bet Johnny would be all over it if we could get all the players / deisgners / builders that offer retro fit sub frames and suspensions to participate. Wayne Due, DSE, Martz, Fatmans, 21st Century, Lateral performance (you guys), and builders like Prodigy Customs, ATS and others.

[Payton King]

I know we are heading in a different direction now than what was orginally posted so before I get off track as well I would like to say/write that my orginal statement holds true in that you have to move pretty fast to be the first or the freshest. But, it does not take anything away in my opinion for the cars the come later.

I an not sure I would throw too many stones at other's designs. When you go the build the first of anything or trying to break new ground and someone steps in from the sidelines and states...I would not do it like that. Unless you have done it, made it work, I would not be so quick to judge. Building these cars or any cars, there are plenty of obstacles. Ask Tyler, If I remember he was or still is having a hell of a time running an exhaust on that car. I applaude anyone that tries and build a car better than it was. I don't care if they are bolting on a set of DSE uppers or putting a C5 running gear in any car. Obviously, the tricky stuff is more interesting.

As far as the competition goes....I am in. I am running the 21st subframe