diesel or gas

[69MyWay]

I work in a vehicle research department. One of the things we track are failure rates and defects with various trucks - especially considering diesel issues.

Let me tell you this - when a diesel breaks - it is expensive. The fuel system is the weak link. Diesel fuel is dirty by nature - has water and dirt in it right out of the pump. As you know, diesel engines have water in fuel filter systems. It is CRUCIAL these are drained and serviced regular. Failure to do so will kill the truck.

Both the later model Dodge and Ford trucks will cost you between $12,000 to $14,000 when the fuel system goes. The pump, high lift pump, injectors and assemblies will set you back this much in a heartbeat.

This begs the huge question on buying used or new. We know new diesel trucks are nuts on the price. However, if you buy used and you DON'T know the service history - you better have plenty in reserve to deal with a failure.

Dodge has a real problem on the Cummins and came out with a SEVERE duty filter kit-translation - they don't make an adequate factory filter so the injection system gets wrecked and costs you...$12K to fix. They won't warranty fuel related issues. In fact, Dodge has a WIF track that stores how long you have driven with the WIF light on. THis is designed to avoid paying warranty claims where the owner is not taking care fo the vehicle.

Check out how serious they are about this:

NUMBER: 14-002-10GROUP: FuelDATE: February 11, 2010THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 14-003-09 REV. A, DATED OCTOBER 21,2009, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE A NEW PART.SUBJECT:Heavy Duty Filtration - MOPAR Retrofit or Add On Parts AvailableMODELS:2003 - 2009 (D1/DH)

Ram Truck (2500/3500 Pick Up)2007 - 2009 (DC)
Ram Truck (3500 Cab Chassis)NOTE:


This bulletin applies to DI/DH/DR vehicles equipped with a 5.9L Cummins engine built from 2003 model year (sales codes ETH, ETC) and DI/DH/DC vehicles equipped with a 6.7L Cummins engine built from 2007 model year (sales code ETJ).DISCUSSION:Several fuel system add-on or retrofit parts are available to enhance the filtering capability for customers exposing their vehicles to extremely dirty conditions.Description of parts available for Cummins diesel equipped vehicles are listed below: ^


6.7L up-graded (5 & 10 micron filter-in-filter) fuel filter to retrofit earlier models (shell and element). ^ 6.7L Element only, fuel filter. ^ 5.9L & 6.7L Add-on or up-graded fuel tank vent hose kit with vent cap. ** Filter for fuel tank vent hose, (replaces vent cap) **. ^ 5.9L up-graded air filter. This filter is similar in design to the current 6.7L air filter.NOTE: Do not sell pin 05183410AA. Use 68061633AA shell and filter.NOTE: The maintenance intervals for the fuel filter has a 15,000 mile service requirement or more often as needed.

[69MyWay]

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

[70rs]

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........

[street3285]

Originally Posted by 69MyWay

By the way - those of you with 2008 and up trucks.

Checked your Diesel Exhaust Fluid lately?

For those that have no idea what I'm talking about - check this out (just another reason in my book NOT to buy a diesel if at all possible)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w31vRM1BORM

2008 don't have DEF, and I believe 2009 chevy's don't either. It started in 2010. But anyways, to answer the OP question, a gas will be fine. I agree with that, but if you want more power and more ease of towing, then a diesel is better. All depends on personal preference, how often towed, and budget. But now, it seems like you can get a used diesel for a decent price with moderate miles.

[wmhjr]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I get HORRIBLE milage... Pstroke 6.0L - With Banks Big Hoss bundle so every option they make.... but I have a 1 ton dually - with 4:10 gears... I pull a heavy (relatively) trailer that is LOADED with stuff... as in full tool box - compressor - 8000# winch and battery... generator... ez ups - cabinets and overheads... floor jack (not a little hydraulic bottle jack) and fully finished inside... so the trailer is a little heavier than a comparable sized "plain jane" version. My Nomad weighs in at 4023 lbs. I get no difference in towing that or the '32. Best I've ever gotten is 11.2 MPG. etc :

Hey Greg, around here the pstrokes aren't the favorite option. It's mainly Cummins or Dmax. Mine is only a 3/4 ton and not a dually but the weights are very similar though I have 3:73s. Add in the smarty jr and the 6spd and I'm pretty optimized though I'm also pushing 4x4 which I wouldn't give up. My Pontiac is 3720 plus full 5ft tall loaded tool chest, floor jack, winch, etc but is probably a little lighter as it isn't totally "finished" but I do have it loaded down. I'm guessing that the loaded trailer for this coming weekend will be around 9000lbs. I can't make the rig get less than 15 no matter what. That's on cruise, loaded, through west Virginia hills at 65-75mph. I don't know of any pstrokes that can say that, and I do know that some dmaxes are faster. They can really be hot rods.

[wmhjr]

Originally Posted by 70rs

I suddenly want a diesel truck much less now.......

Thanks for the info. And for crushing my dreams........

Don't let the previous scares mess with you. I can find a gazillion tech bulletins about pretty much any vehicle out there and have NEVER in ALL the owners I know, meet and see observed a "$12,000" rebuild on a diesel fuel system. I'm not saying there can't be problems but the statement to avoid a diesel if at all possible? Are you kidding me? Better tell all commercial trucking they're screwing up. Truth is - and it's fact - we've been slow to catch on but diesels are here to stay and for good reason. I'm not a fan of e urea based systems but..... And to pick on the cummins of all the diesel motors? The only medium duty engine option? Wow. I guess it just reinforces my avoidance of all the "analyst" opinions. Btw I do know of two people who had warranty fuel related issues that were completely covered.

Bottom line is this. I've got a number of diesel vehicles. Some are 50 yrs old. I've got a truck with 230k miles on it that runs like new, though it does have the typical cheap a$$ dodge interior. I do NOT run biodiesel, which can introduce all kinds of issues. And here's a question. There are a bunch of folks on this site who pull with diesels. Who hearer has found all kinds of water in their fuel, or has paid $12k for a fuel system rebuild. Buehler? Ferris?

[rwhite692]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

That can be fixed by learning how to drive better....

No need for the 4X4... and the ONCE you needed it could have been fixed with a WINCH... or using your cell phone and calling a tow truck etc. I just don't NEED to carry all the weight and drivetrain components on a truck that is used for HIWAY recreational towing.

The incident in question took place on a dirt road up in gold country where only one vehicle can pass at a time.

Cell Phone? LOL!....Not going to happen at some of the places we go hunting and camping, GW.

I realize that some o' y'all city folk never actually need or use their 4WD....but I'm not one of them....

BTW, I have also had my 07 so covered in gumbo mud, that you couldn't tell what color it is. It's forded a couple of streams as well.

Give me the extra capability of 4WD in my HD truck, any day.

[WSSix]

I really appreciate everyone's replies.

I currently live where it is flat but will be running to Colorado and back often. I even hope to return to living in Colorado. More times than not I'll be hauling a motorcycle in the bed up and down the grades not the car. I'll also be going on many of the trails in Colorado but nothing serious so I'll have 4wd. I really would like this truck to be the last vehicle I ever buy that's not a toy or project that's why I am getting a CC eventhough I have no family and am not popular enough to need four doors. In the future, I'm sure four doors will be utilized.

I'm getting the 2500 for towing and ruggedness. The issue is diesel or gas. I'm finding trucks in my price range ~$15k both diesel and gas loaded the exact same way. These are 03-early07 Silverados. Mileage is very different with the gassers around 80k to 100k and the diesel 150k and up. The long term value of the vehicle is a factor though a smaller one. I can afford a diesel and I love the pulling power. I'm just trying to be smart and logical about this decision and not let emotion control my purchase.

Thanks

[Vegas69]

I met a new neighbor last night and he has an 07 Dodge with a cummins. He said his turbo has been out once or twice because he's not driving it long enough at highway speed. Dodge gave him a DVD and said he must drive it at 55mph for at least an hour continous every two weeks. Take it for what it's worth.

[69MyWay]

Originally Posted by street3285

2008 don't have DEF, and I believe 2009 chevy's don't either. It started in 2010. But anyways, to answer the OP question, a gas will be fine. I agree with that, but if you want more power and more ease of towing, then a diesel is better. All depends on personal preference, how often towed, and budget. But now, it seems like you can get a used diesel for a decent price with moderate miles.

Correct! Thanks for the catch.

Don't let the previous scares mess with you. I can find a gazillion tech bulletins about pretty much any vehicle out there and have NEVER in ALL the owners I know, meet and see observed a "$12,000" rebuild on a diesel fuel system.

You will just have to trust me on this. I can't release actual statistics from my work - but the numbers are overwhelming on these failures and the impact it is having.

My buddy just bought a 2005 F250 Diesel with 120K miles. Bought a one way plane ticket - flew into FL and drove it back to IL. When he hit Atlanta around midnight...power loss....slowing down....slowing....Stopped. Had it towed to the Ford dealer on Memorial day. Upper fuel system dead - $3,000 later he was rolling. He was lucky to get out that cheap! He now has a 2011 Duramax Chevy and is very happy with it.

By the way, the new GM products don't have the severe issue that Dodge and Ford fight.

Ford had a massive issue with injectors. They say the Dodge problem is the injectors are not properly filtered. They require 2 micron, but the best the stock system on the truck does is around 10. Thus - dirty fuel and dead truck.

I don't have an agenda - but it is nice to know some of those things you don't find out until you find out the hard way.