What happened to the 69 DSE Car? - Page 4 - Lateral-g Forums

**bret** · #31 10-03-2011, 06:07 PM

James, I have a question...

Did you attend this event?

SLO_Z28 · #32 10-03-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bret

James, I have a question...

Did you attend this event?

No. Ill be the first to admit that I'm being a keyboard commando, but I stick behind my comments.

**Bill Howell** · #33 10-03-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO_Z28

Parts of that make me CRINGE. This autocross should have never happened, the course wasn't safe, and the venue wasn't adequate for the type of course. This should have never been run to begin with, and it was only a matter of time until something of this nature occurred.

To give the entire story since everyone is beating around the bush here, the event promoter is Bill Howell. Bill started a thread on Pro Touring about how he knew that these cars, and courses were unsafe, and that we might need to require more rules, and better safety equipment. He then later deleted the thread, I'm assuming so that when something like this happened the insurance carrier wouldn't see that he had concerns, and he could limit his liability.

I think this falls into the 6P's category. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. In this case someone with experience, such as a SCCA steward, could have drastically changed this course, or even ruled the venue inadequate and prevented this entire thing.

To be fair, Bill did promote the RTTC2 event that I went to, and the courses were exceptionally well designed. The autocross and road course both were safe, fun, and challenging.

WOW, really?
First, it is amazing to me that you can watch a video and from across the country determine the course was unsafe. A multi-time national SCCA champion set it up, over 780 runs were made in 6 hours, and suddenly, with one incident, it should have never happened?
Second, I never, in the thread you mentioned, said courses or cars were unsafe. I started a thread, to get people involved in how we could improve things. We have gone, in 6 years from static car shows to full on road racing in our cars. Some say we don't need roll bars, others think we can never do enough to be safe enough and should stop all competition. In my position, I want to be as safe as we can reasonably be without killing the hobby. Once I gleaned all the info I was looking for, I moved the thread, not deleted. Anyone with proper authority can view it.
Third, no one, including myself, ever tried to HIDE the event or the incident. In fact, DSE posted pictures of the car the very next day. I did ask people not to post up video or pictures of the car until DSE had the chance to tell the story as they saw fit. After they did, the story pretty much died until this thread, and just as I suspected, keyboard warriors have gone from the facts about the wreck to their own speculation about how they would have done things different, how this was just horrible and blah, blah, blah when in fact they are just running their mouth about something they don't know what they are talking about. And yes, this is the very thing that some unknowing insurance agent could read and have issue with. In my case, my people knew about it that afternoon. Total damage was hurt front end on camaro and one dead tree (6 inches around) and one broken 4x4 post.
Fourth, new safety measures are in store for all the event I do next year, however, none are based on this incident. This was a freak deal, as most racing incidents are, and I am not sure what could have been done different to prevent it. However, if it did have to happen, I am thankful it happened to a car and team that is probably the most prepared and safety conscious team out there. A true testament to that is that Stacy walked away and never missed a beat the rest of the weekend.

If we are going to do anything other than sit at a static car show, these things will happen. To learn from it is what we should be striving to do and do better next time. To want videos, pictures and countless Monday Morning Quarterbacks out there to sensationalize something way out of proportion serves no good purpose.

If you like events and want them to continue, move on. If you want to jeopardize them, keep posting opinions in threads like this.

I agree with Mark about self inspections and think anyone serious enough to push their car to it's limits should be also. However, I am amazed when I see cars that don't even have the battery secure show up to autocross???? The trouble is Mark has forgot more about car safety and proper maintenance than most of us will ever learn. So until everyone thinks like him, we will have to do more than take their word about their car if they are planning on running it at an event.

If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, PM, email me at [email protected] or call me @ 865.850.8228. I have nothing to hide but I refuse to discuss it further in this format.

Fluid Power · #34 10-03-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Howell

WOW, really?
First, it is amazing to me that you can watch a video and from across the country determine the course was unsafe. A multi-time national SCCA champion set it up, over 780 runs were made in 6 hours, and suddenly, with one incident, it should have never happened?
Second, I never, in the thread you mentioned, said courses or cars were unsafe. I started a thread, to get people involved in how we could improve things. We have gone, in 6 years from static car shows to full on road racing in our cars. Some say we don't need roll bars, others think we can never do enough to be safe enough and should stop all competition. In my position, I want to be as safe as we can reasonably be without killing the hobby. Once I gleaned all the info I was looking for, I moved the thread, not deleted. Anyone with proper authority can view it.
Third, no one, including myself, ever tried to HIDE the event or the incident. In fact, DSE posted pictures of the car the very next day. I did ask people not to post up video or pictures of the car until DSE had the chance to tell the story as they saw fit. After they did, the story pretty much died until this thread, and just as I suspected, keyboard warriors have gone from the facts about the wreck to their own speculation about how they would have done things different, how this was just horrible and blah, blah, blah when in fact they are just running their mouth about something they don't know what they are talking about. And yes, this is the very thing that some unknowing insurance agent could read and have issue with. In my case, my people knew about it that afternoon. Total damage was hurt front end on camaro and one dead tree (6 inches around) and one broken 4x4 post.
Fourth, new safety measures are in store for all the event I do next year, however, none are based on this incident. This was a freak deal, as most racing incidents are, and I am not sure what could have been done different to prevent it. However, if it did have to happen, I am thankful it happened to a car and team that is probably the most prepared and safety conscious team out there. A true testament to that is that Stacy walked away and never missed a beat the rest of the weekend.

If we are going to do anything other than sit at a static car show, these things will happen. To learn from it is what we should be striving to do and do better next time. To want videos, pictures and countless Monday Morning Quarterbacks out there to sensationalize something way out of proportion serves no good purpose.

If you like events and want them to continue, move on. If you want to jeopardize them, keep posting opinions in threads like this.

I agree with Mark about self inspections and think anyone serious enough to push their car to it's limits should be also. However, I am amazed when I see cars that don't even have the battery secure show up to autocross???? The trouble is Mark has forgot more about car safety and proper maintenance than most of us will ever learn. So until everyone thinks like him, we will have to do more than take their word about their car if they are planning on running it at an event.

If anyone wants to discuss this with me further, PM, email me at [email protected] or call me @ 865.850.8228. I have nothing to hide but I refuse to discuss it further in this format.

Well said Bill!

Darren

**camcojb** · #35 10-03-2011, 06:57 PM

Thanks Bill. I for one greatly appreciate what you've done to grow these events, they're a lot of fun.

**GregWeld** · #36 10-03-2011, 07:00 PM

Perfect Bill! Kudos to you!

If it was all someone else's fault --- then I'm thinking DSE might have been the ones to say so... and so far they haven't. DONE!

Talked about you today btw just in case your ears were ringing! Dr Renner and I were having a nice chat and said how much we hoped RTTC would be coming up!! Such fun events!!

XOXO

**Bill Howell** · #37 10-03-2011, 07:15 PM

Thanks Guys.
Greg, just between us, there will be 2 RTTC style events in 2012, just don't tell anyone else right now...

mpozziCPL · #38 10-03-2011, 07:21 PM

You just did, you goof! <ducks for cover>

Mary Pozzi

ccracin · #39 10-03-2011, 07:26 PM

Excellent post Bill. Speaking as some one who was tired of cruises that entailed parking in a lot and driving high end one flip to open lawn chairs, I applaud what you have done for this hobby. Also as someone with a racing background I know the challenges you face in putting these events together. I can't wait for our project to be completed and participate in many of your events. They better continue or you'll have to answer for the extra thousands that have been spent to get the truck out of the parking lot!

**Stuart Adams** · #40 10-03-2011, 07:34 PM

Bill, good job as always. Glad Stacy is alright. Thank goodness their stuff is as safe as it is. In a round about way from the looks of the car, it sais alot about their parts. For as hard as the competitors push their cars I'm surprised their are not more serious incidents. Kudos to you Bill.

Looking forward to seeing you at SEMA.