Air ride.....Mini tub poll

[race-rodz]

if your worried about melting a line, or rubbing through a line, then i say hardlines are the way to go for your set-up.

normally when i set up a customer air ride system, i explain that the car must always be able to roll, steer, and stop. that way IF something does go wrong, you atleast have "some" control in getting the vehicle safely to the side of the road. as for blowing a bag, it wont happen, unless they are installed very wrong, or you run waaaaaaaaaay too much pressure, like double...almost triple what a standard air ride compressor will put out.

now i have a dually that lays the rockers flat on the ground,(do as i say not as i act kinda deal) IF it ever has a problem, yes, i am putting myself and everybody else on the road in danger(just like if a balljoint breaks, or a wheel falls off), but i have 80,000+ miles on it, and have never had ANY problems with it. routine maintance is key, making sure all the parts are in good working condition, replacing air lines just "cuz"...an of coarse this system was designed and set-up for years of trouble free use.

you can "what-if" anything to death, some of the concerns are legit, and there are solutions and options to address the concerns.

[DRJDVM's '69]

Is there a way to set it up so that the car isnt completely on the ground when all the pressure is out of the bags ? How do you set it up so that the car can roll, steer and brake IF something happens ?

I'm not that familiar with some of the details. I want to be able to have the car sit real low when I want, but I dont need the frame on the ground etc.

[GeorgeO924]

Yea i think some people are overthinking the air-ride thing. If u always think about the worst stuff that can happen ur overthinking. I have had 3 cars with 3 different setups never once had any problem. On the other hand i do know a dude that had a wheel fall off his truck going 55 an he was fine. I also had a 30 series tire blow out on me on the xway at 120 and again im still here so imo if ur gunna get hurt it will happen reguardless. Just the way it goes sometimes....

[bret]

A few people have mentioned that you would likely find few air suspension fans here. I would like to add only one word to that: YET.
As we continue to demonstrate the performance benefits through track days, autocross events, and magazine testing data comparisons we continue to make believers out of any who pay attention. Obviously no product is for everyone and air suspension is no exception, but in time it will become as accepted in a true performance application as electronic ignition, electronic fuel injection, and electronically controlled overdrive tranmissions. Look for us at the Year One Experience, the Goodguys autocross events, the Musclerides.com autocross event in Pigeon Forge in September, our own Street Challenge track day in September, and the Hot Rod Magazine Open Track Smackdown in October. I am not going to claim that an air suspension car will win any of these events [yet], but at this point, all we have to do is not suck. After we don't suck anymore we can move on to finishing well, and then maybe on to winning! At the VERY worst we will have one hell of a good time trying to prove our merit!
At any rate...you guys don't need me to shove air suspension down your throat...only to suggest where to look for relevant information in order to make an educated decision that is right for YOUR car. Stay tuned...

[61Bubbletop]

Originally Posted by DRJDVM's '69

Bad6spd.... I understand your point but your other "scenarios" are alittle different... most of them would occur if you were pushing/punishing the car hard and then it wouldnt be unexpected. If you beat on stuff, it may break. I'm not talking about "popping" a bag, I'm talking about something as simple as an air fitting coming loose or one of the many hoses you have to run leaking. Those things could easily happen without the driver beating on the car. The hoses are the "weak link" that I'm concerned about most.. How easy would it be to accidently have one chaff a hole or melt or catch on some debris you hit on the road ?? A small air leak and your car could be on the ground while driving at any speed

You could compare it to having an oil line come loose, but if that occurs the most likely thing is you make a huge mess and the motor goes bye bye.... an air line coming loose and the car hits the ground....

Yes, anything can happen and no matter how well something is engineered, there is always the risk of a failure that can result in serious life threatening issues. My point was just to mention some of the concerns that I had been thinking about....

I like the Air Ride stuff and I've been SERIOUSLY considering it, so dont think I'm in the "air bag bashing" camp. Its not that at all.

Don't sweat it Ned, I didn't mean for that to come off combative...I guess I would just say, that with my real world experience with bags, I have found them to be safe and reliable....If you have concerns, that is completely understandable.....just do the research and make a decision that is right for you, and makes you feel comfortable.

[race-rodz]

Originally Posted by DRJDVM's '69

Is there a way to set it up so that the car isnt completely on the ground when all the pressure is out of the bags ? How do you set it up so that the car can roll, steer and brake IF something happens ?

I'm not that familiar with some of the details. I want to be able to have the car sit real low when I want, but I dont need the frame on the ground etc.

most vehicles wont lay flat on the ground by simply installing bags or shockwaves, usually takes serious modification to get a car/truck to lay out....my dually has a monster notch, drop spindles, stepped arms, and a front frame Z just to get the frame on the ground...then its bodydropped(channeled) so the rockers are as low as the frame.

but you can install bumpstops as a limiting factor to keep the car say 1" off the ground.... the alignment goes to crap when the air is gone....but atleast you still have control, as opposed to just hanging on and waiting for the ride to be over(again....this is just a "what if"...worst case kinda deal)

[mazspeed]

Originally Posted by bret

but in time it will become as accepted in a true performance application as electronic ignition, electronic fuel injection, and electronically controlled overdrive tranmissions.

You have a long way to go to prove this. I have driven 1 properly built air ride car on a track and it was acceptable as a performance upgrade to anything out nowadays. If this was the case, then why don't professional race teams use it. Is the product good for the street, yes. Is it good for light duty autocrossing, a little, but in no way in it's present form, remotely close to anything out there for after market performance suspensions.

[Sales@Dutchboys]

Bret is the owner of air ride......


-Paul

[mazspeed]

Originally Posted by chevy2boy333

Bret is the owner of air ride......


-Paul

That explains it.

[bret]

Originally Posted by mazspeed

You have a long way to go to prove this. I have driven 1 properly built air ride car on a track and it was acceptable as a performance upgrade to anything out nowadays. If this was the case, then why don't professional race teams use it. Is the product good for the street, yes. Is it good for light duty autocrossing, a little, but in no way in it's present form, remotely close to anything out there for after market performance suspensions.

First...yes, I own Air Ride Technologies. As I have said on other forums, not trying to hide my motives, just trying to avoid the shameless self promotion.
Second...I agree completely that we have a long way to go to prove the merits of a properly designed and tuned air suspension, especially since the path is littered with many components and installers whose definition of performance is a bit different that most of us on this forum.
The only limitations of an air suspension that I have found so far are the limits of our ability to develop new components and applications fast enough. Only so many hours in the day. As with any product or technology, new or not, continuing refinement and development is the key to making progress. Winning racers rarely find 50 horsepower at one time...they find it in 3 hp increments. I think that is kind of where we are at right now. The easy fiields have been plowed...reliability, durability, model applications, basic design parameters, etc, have all been well documented. Now we are refining electronic ride height systems, multistage shock adjustability, airspring piston profiles, etc.
Why don't racers use air suspension? Well, some do. There will be several at Bonneville next month...including the editor of Hotrod Magazine in a 2nd gen Camaro, Trepaniers newest creation, a 68 Barracuda with a 1300hp 4 cyl, and a flatehead powered streamliner. We have worked with a couple of NASCAR teams [no, I can't say who] and are headfirst into a major development program for a miliary application. We ahve also worked with a number of drag racers who are using the ShockWaves as a very useful traction tuning tool...as well as being handy for loading the car in the trailer. The real reason most racers don't use ANY adjustable suspension is simply because it is against the rules in many sanctioning bodies. At that point most teams won't waste any resources to persue a technology that they won't be allowed to use anyhow.
I am seriously encouraged by the debate on these forums...it inspires new product development and increased education and training for our customers. In other words...it gets me off my dead ass. Personally, I hope threads like this last forever!
BTW...I don't get the chance to lurk on these forums as much as I would like, so don't take a non-response as anything negative...I'm just off doing other stuff.