Dirt Missile rebuild begins

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

SO —- MY POINT??? MY point is — if you have ANYTHING THAT IS SUTTON SPEC — get a second or third opinion on what it is.....

Gregg, this is troubling for many of us. When we thought we did our due diligence choosing the correct (and not cheapest either) parts, many of us are now unsure of everything.
I hesitate to ask, or post names of companies involved with Ron, but should I assume that all my parts including a arms, brakes, shocks,rear end, ,that were drop shipped from (in my case) Ridetech, Wilwood, and speedway, while possibly not the best specs, that they are matched and assembled correctly?
Even after I just typed this in it sounds ridiculous, but many out there are probably wondering the same.

[SSLance]

I feel bad for Greg on this deal, when one buys a high dollar catalog car...the expectation is that it will come with all matched specs and this one clearly didn't.

I have put probably 8-10 different Sutton spec'd setups under my car over the past 5 years and about 75% of them were neutral balanced out of the box. A few of them totally missed the mark though. We put a new front bar/rear spring setup under the car before my first SCCA Nationals trip in 2014 and the car was basically undrivable on course. After the first day my friends and I came up with a solution in paddock, swapped out the rear springs and a day later I brought home a third place trophy.

What I learned more than anything thru all of this was how to diagnose what the car is doing on my own and come up with tuning solutions to solve issues it has. Spring and bar adjustments, shock adjustments, brake bias adjustments...when you are closer to the pointy end of the stick, the guy or gal behind the wheel needs to be able to feel what the car is doing and where...then be able to adjust the car to the current situation.

To expect a person behind a computer screen States away from you to spec a package out and be perfect every time...is a mistake. Hard parts from reputable manufacturers are golden, no issues with any of them. Deciding which adjustments to make on those parts for a balanced setup....that should be on the owner/driver/crew chief.

I will add this about Sutton as well, when I found something that worked better for me than what he prescribed, he was always cool about it. Never did he give me the " I'm right you are wrong, that won't work" bit that I have seen from other people in the industry. This let me to grow as a tuner myself which in the end should be what anyone else doing this should strive for as well.

Hope that made sense...I'm not trying to defend anything Ron did as much as I'm just saying if you really want something done right, do it yourself.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by SSLance

I'm just saying if you really want something done OVER, do it yourself.

Fixed it for ya.

Sorry but you missed the mark by a mile.

My posts have not been about the “oops! Missed that one”..... My posts are for HEADS UP —- just because a part is spec’d doesn’t make it the absolute right one — or even near the right thing.... and if people ordered parts and pieces from this guy —- they might just want to double check what they got.

I’ve said it 1000 times here —- the work he did on my ‘65 Mustang was magic.... turned a POS car in to a really fun car to track....

My warnings on the DM build is this ——— NOTHING SO FAR HAS BEEN RIGHT. Many have found themselves in this same boat.... not just me.

And — by the way — do it yourself — is, of course, the way many or most do things around here — but they still would have consulted or engaged “professional advice” — from the manufacturer - supplier - fellow racer - fellow builder — because you have to start SOMEWHERE.... then modify and change set up etc.

There’s a difference between an oops — and incompetence.

[CJD Automotive]

Originally Posted by SSLance

To expect a person behind a computer screen States away from you to spec a package out and be perfect every time...is a mistake.

Unfortunately, that was HIS sales pitch and his reasoning behind charging so much.

I think the more apt way to put it, would be, "You can't expect a person who has only drawn up a suspension package, then had someone else make it, and never once tested or verified anything he designed, to work out of the box."

The mistake was those of us assuming he had.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by CJD Automotive

Unfortunately, that was HIS sales pitch and his reasoning behind charging so much.

I think the more apt way to put it, would be, "You can't expect a person who has only drawn up a suspension package, then had someone else make it, and never once tested or verified anything he designed, to work out of the box."

The mistake was those of us assuming he had.

Remember his catalog states —- he’s built 200 race cars. His later posts reveal #1 “I didn’t build this car” and #2 Nothing he had anything to do with was wrong — it was all those silly manufacturers fault. We all know exactly who spec’d out the parts and oversaw the build from day one. He was also very happy to cash the checks.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by SSLance

Never did he give me the " I'm right you are wrong, that won't work" bit that I have seen from other people in the industry.

Funny, you may be the only one. He has said that countless times to many knowledgeable & talented guys - car builders, shop owners, etc.

God he was/is a douche nozzle.

[SSLance]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Sorry but you missed the mark by a mile.

Eh, you know me Greg... I'm sure we feel pretty much the same about how all of this has gone down.

I just did a poor job of making my point this morning. I blame lack of coffee.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Flash68

Funny, you may be the only one. He has said that countless times to many knowledgeable & talented guys - car builders, shop owners, etc.

God he was/is a douche nozzle.

In complete retrospect —— he prayed on the Freshman class...... and you think about that for a moment —- none of the fast guys or guys that have been around awhile used him for ANYTHING.... and most of them have since come to me and said flat out — we never could figure out why you used him.....

Because — I didn’t know any better.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by SSLance

Eh, you know me Greg... I'm sure we feel pretty much the same about how all of this has gone down.

I just did a poor job of making my point this morning. I blame lack of coffee.

I know what you meant — but nobody else reading it would have.....


I wouldn’t have nearly the “issues” with things being wrong — if they were just that — a little wrong - a choice vs a WTF is that doing in there sort of thing.... shock settings are subjective - how you get to the same point in handling is subjective — big bar soft springs — blah blah blah...... What we have discovered is that the living legend he thinks he is —- is not so legendary..... in fact - quite the opposite. A legend in his own mind. A completely made up history.... omitting the real and correct facts of his career and how his teams were run and all of it.....

Different specs are not what we’re finding here —— we’re finding complete and utter incompetence..... unsafe at any speed..... dangerously built and constructed.... topped off with ruinous information....

People find it so hard to comprehend —- and separate what they thought and the fact —- like this —- the motor was mechanically fine even after tear down —- what ruined the motor was the tune up — HIS GUY — HIS tune up..... It was his refusal to change the valve covers when he was told they didn’t work with the valve train — he was TOLD THIS and didn’t make the correct call —- on a $30,000 motor..... I don’t care that I have JRi triples —- they were valved wrong - gas pressures were wrong - they were missing parts - and had completely different settings from each other.... By the way folks — that might be fine in an all left hand course.... but we turn both ways from time to time.... LOL

Brake pad numbers being different — big whoop — that is just to be discovered in test and tune.... and changed as needed.... That’s not what I’m talking about at all.

Here’s what I do like though!!!! The car won it’s first weekend out — against a nothing field so big whoop..... but it ran Thunderhill backwards and without a single tuning change to anything due to all the mopping in aisle 3..... no data was garnered - tire wise - brake bias wise — shock adjustment or bar adjustment - and run the track the right way (clockwise) etc..... and it ran a 1:54

Now I’m wondering — with a far better motor/tuneup — shocks done differently - brakes “better?” - ditched the stupid de-coupled Barbie doll parts.... electrical squared away... heating working and oiling working as they should have..... Now what does it have in it???

[bdahlg68]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

..... Now what does it have in it???

Welp - there is only one way to find out!