Collateral Damage- My 70 Chevelle site build

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by clill

Doesn't sound like "Retired" if you are thinking about doing work for money. Sounds like "Unemployed"

Very true. We can't all retire like you...

[Ummgawa]

Really enjoying seeing this one come together Boss.

[Blown353]

Originally Posted by camcojb

Had no idea you were doing that much work for other people. I don't have your skills but I've always turned down work for money. But being retired now the extra money would help lol.

Oh no… don’t go short changing yourself in the skills department. I’ll be the first to admit my own limitations (or try something anyways and then throw it away because I’m not happy with the results)-- I can't do it all even if I try to. Your builds have always been super cool, and I may have borrowed an idea or two (or three) from you along the way.

As far as doing the side jobs, I’m not really going out and soliciting these jobs… they’re usually friends or acquaintances who want help with something. I tell them I don’t have time, then they say “I’ll pay you”, I say I still don’t have time and I need to work on my car, and finally after a few back and forth haggling sessions they say “I’ll pay you this much” and the number finally exceeds some sort of magic threshold and I give in and say “OK, bring it over.”

Even I have my breaking point, LOL

I have learned though to immediately turn away anyone who constantly changes their mind or wants to cut corners, because when their cheap parts they provided or half assed fab ideas that they wanted me to build fails (even when I did it exactly how they wanted it over my objections) they always try to blame you for it. After a couple of those disasters, nowadays if they don’t want to do it the right way with the right parts the first time, I tell them take it somewhere else so they can blame them when it fails. I've got a pretty good feel now who might turn out to be a problem customer, and I politely refer them somewhere else. That's what's nice about doing it on the side, it's not like I have to keep taking customers in to keep the lights on. This just turns into extra fun money (unfortunately it also turns into less time to work on my car.)

The local shops that call me in for help with the problems do have to pay, either money or free parts. I’m not giving those guys free labor while they’re billing the customer for my time too, LOL. Just yesterday I had to go see a local shop with EFI issues after an install, turns out they can't read the instructions for how to wire it up properly and did everything the instructions said NOT to do... no wonder it didn't run right.

The other problem is that once you fix a couple cars that other shops couldn't fix, somehow your number starts getting passed around, and you get calls about all the jobs nobody else wants to touch or wants to put the time in to really find out what’s wrong with it.

Had a friend of a friend with an issue with his wife’s older Bronco last year, at light throttle it was running poorly, smelled super rich, and was constantly fouling spark plugs and popping out the exhaust, but at heavier throttle it was running OK. He took it to two local hot rod shops, who both blamed the EFI tune and charged him for dyno sessions and retuning, and it still had the issue, so they blamed the Holley EFI and told him to send it back to Holley… which also didn’t fix the issues. Turns out the intake manifold was loose and was sucking enough air past the intake gaskets on the bank with the O2 sensor to have lean misfires, so the EFI thought the engine was running super lean and it kept dumping more fuel in it as both of the shops left the Holley closed loop limits at the default +/- 50% max learn values. A little squirt of ether where the intake met the head found the problem immediately and checking the spark waveforms on the oscilloscope confirmed misfires on 3 cylinders, and new intake gaskets fixed the issue, and then I had to fix the tune because both shops added more fuel to try and get the O2 corrections back close to 0%. Never heard if the owner went back to the previous 2 shops to try and recoup some money, they charged him dearly for not fixing a damn thing or properly diagnosing the issue.

A couple years back I had to go through a car with a fine tooth comb that a semi-local shop had for 2 years for a front subframe swap, LS swap, and vintage air install, charged $55k for their work, and gave it back to the owner with a ton of things wrong with it on it both on the fab/assembly side and the EFI tune… the owner sued and got a good chunk of his money back, and I got to fix all the mistakes… so, so many mistakes. I learned a lot about what not to do fixing that car. Did you know that if you don’t safety wire the bolts that hold the rotors to the hats on a Wilwood brake kit like the instructions say that the bolts will back out until they hit the spindle and lock up a front wheel going down the freeway at 70mph? Also, if the car dies every time you step on the brakes or turn the steering wheel while stopped the correct answer is not to tell the customer “it’s just the EFI self learning, it will figure it out and stop dying by the time you get it home.” Uh… no. That “self learning” excuse was even funnier when about 30 minutes prior the shop owner was talking up his EFI guy by saying “he gets flown all over the country to tune for race teams.” Well, maybe the DNF race teams, or more likely the DNQ teams after I've had to fix about a dozen of his tunes over the last couple years because of major driveability issues. Furthermore, the engine and transmission in question was a crate LS3 525 and 4L70, and rather than use the GMPP ECU and TCM that was made for that combo and warrantied by GM they used a Holley HP so they could bill him more money for the Holley, install time, dyno time, and tuning time rather than just using the GMPP ECU and TCM and having it bolt in and go.

On the note of “quality” work from various local hot rod shops (and here's some more tips for your build!) did you know if you leave a large enough hand bent coil of hard brake line between the frame and rear axle it will flex enough that you don’t need a rubber brake hose running between the frame and rear end? The coil of hardline flexes and works just fine! That’s really safe on a tubbed Impala with a blown 468 that you’re planning to drive in hot august nights traffic. Another car built by that same shop had the front suspension fail on the freeway during the very first 10 miles of driving putting it into the center divider, and yet another car from that shop died in the middle of highway 395 during hot august nights a couple years ago because of poor wiring that smoked while driving.

I’ve seen lots of scary stuff on other people’s cars over the last several years. I also wonder how some of these shop owners sleep at night after billing for some of the work I've seen them turn out, not to mention how they stay in business, have a 6 month backlog for more of their "quality" work, and keep getting more customers, LOL



Also, in honor of the new Barbie movie that just came out I took Jim the paint code for "Barbie Corvette Pink" for your car. He agreed it would look much cooler than some flavor of metallic rootbeer brown. He should start spraying next week... you're welcome.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Blown353

Also, in honor of the new Barbie movie that just came out I took Jim the paint code for "Barbie Corvette Pink" for your car. He agreed it would look much cooler than some flavor of metallic rootbeer brown. He should start spraying next week... you're welcome.

[Ketzer]

Originally Posted by Blown353

I have learned though to immediately turn away anyone who constantly changes their mind or wants to cut corners, because when their cheap parts they provided or half assed fab ideas that they wanted me to build fails (even when I did it exactly how they wanted it over my objections) they always try to blame you for it. After a couple of those disasters, nowadays if they don’t want to do it the right way with the right parts the first time, I tell them take it somewhere else so they can blame them when it fails. I've got a pretty good feel now who might turn out to be a problem customer, and I politely refer them somewhere else. That's what's nice about doing it on the side, it's not like I have to keep taking customers in to keep the lights on. This just turns into extra fun money (unfortunately it also turns into less time to work on my car.)

This is exactly why I don't work on other peoples projects...

Jeff-

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Ketzer

This is exactly why I don't work on other peoples projects...

Jeff-

Yep, same for me. I help good friends but have never taken the next step to take on jobs for people I don't know, though there's been a lot of opportunities. 35 years of being self-employed in both retail and service has taught me a lot about customers...

[WSSix]

Originally Posted by camcojb

35 years of being self-employed in both retail and service has taught me a lot about customers...

The general population is out of their damn minds. It's a little scary when you consider you have to share the world with them.

Did you finally decide on a color, Jody? I'm guessing you'll keep it close to the vest if you have?

[Blown353]

Originally Posted by Ketzer

This is exactly why I don't work on other peoples projects...

Jeff-

Yep. That's a good policy, and one I stuck to for many years until I found a few people who wanted it done correctly and aren't worried about schedule or pinching pennies. Those people in turn referred their friends with the same attitude.

I'm very, very picky about what I'll work on, and honestly it really boils down to the person rather than the car.

Cars are everywhere (and nearly all of them need work of some sort) but good customers who understand what it's going to cost to do it right and how much time it's going to take are rare IMO, especially when I'm only doing it in the evenings after work and on weekends. I'm not doing this 8-10 hours a day as a full time job so they have to be cool with the wait.

A good example of finding the right customer was a few years back when a friend's father in law came over with a laundry list of stuff he wanted done to a 69 Camaro he had recently purchased. It was basically turning a nice mostly stock resto into a more PT kind of car. I looked the list of wants and desired parts over and said probably about $100k for parts and labor and figure about 9 months to do it. He blew up and told me I was out of my damn mind (using some extra 4 letter words) and I said that's fine, go get some estimates from other shops. Cheapest estimate he got was $170k, and when he came back apologizing I said thanks but no thanks. After the blow up over the initial estimate I knew he's not the kind of person I'd want to work with; even though the money would have been good it would not have been worth the headaches. He never ended up doing anything to the car and sold it about a year later.

Given the choice between working on an absolute heap for a really cool owner who says "whatever it takes, I'm not in a rush", and working on a really nice high dollar car that's owned by someone who wants it yesterday and is already bitching about the price or wait time before I've even agreed to work on it, I'll take the heap with the cool owner every time.

Originally Posted by camcojb

Yep, same for me. I help good friends but have never taken the next step to take on jobs for people I don't know, though there's been a lot of opportunities. 35 years of being self-employed in both retail and service has taught me a lot about customers...

The customer is not always right, I know that.

I get enough phone calls I probably could quit my day job and start doing this stuff full time, but I do NOT want to do it full time... because sometimes you just need to tell someone no and walk away. If I was doing this for my day job there is eventually going to be a time I'd have to accept jobs I didn't want to do or take a job from a problem customer just to keep the income coming in-- and that's something I don't want to have to do. Being a side job I only take on what I want to work on, and I like it that way.

I do really need to get back to working on and finish my car, it's been off the road way too long. I have nearly everything needed to assemble it other than AN fittings/lines, ABS harness, new wiring harness, intercooler heat exchanger, clutch/flywheel, and I might change my mind on gauges (thinking rather than using the custom dash insert with Stack ST700 tach and gauges that I put together about 10 years ago, I might change to Dakota Digital HDX gauges plus a Holley 7" screen in a center console.) Might also sell my new in box Vintage Air Gen IV underdash box and upgrade to a Gen V box when they're available for the Chevelles.

Lots of mockup/fab/assembly to do though.

And no, still no plans for bodywork/paint.

[dhutton]

I started doing work for others when I retired from engineering 8 years ago at 58. It has been a positive experience. I have a handful of customers that I build for, some as many as 5 cars. I manage expectations and promise only nice driver quality, a promise less hopefully deliver more strategy. Have had a couple of cars win awards at Goodguys and another at LS Fest. Some are full builds, some are painted rollers with suspension installed. I’ve also learned to tell when a customer is going to be trouble and when to say no. I don’t take any money up front and I don’t try to make money on parts. I only work on one car at a time. These are two areas where I think guys get into trouble.

Don

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by WSSix

The general population is out of their damn minds. It's a little scary when you consider you have to share the world with them.

Did you finally decide on a color, Jody? I'm guessing you'll keep it close to the vest if you have?

I have not picked the actual shade yet, hoping some spray-outs from Jim will make the decision.