Toyota's " Death Pedal " autopsy

[James OLC]

Originally Posted by Fluid Power

If it is a sensor issue, what is the purpose of installing the metal shim?

Darren

Dollars vs cents (or sense)

My fear is that if it is a software or sensor issue that there will be a huge over reaction that ends with some stupid law outlawing the modification or alteration of FBW pedals or ECMs across the board.

[69MyWay]

Originally Posted by James OLC

Dollars vs cents (or sense)

My fear is that if it is a software or sensor issue that there will be a huge over reaction that ends with some stupid law outlawing the modification or alteration of FBW pedals or ECMs across the board.

That would be a nightmare in more than one way. Namely, the DBW system is center stage in Active Handling that will be required on ALL new cars sold in the US soon.

They may outlaw magnetic field sensors - if that is what they find to be the problem. That would leave GM, Ford...etc, in the clear since they don't use that technology.

[Fluid Power]

dollars and sense does not answer the question at hand. What is the purpose of doing the recall and installing a shim that "helps reduce friction?" Is it to buy time and fix the EMI problem and then replace all the affected assemblies again?

Darren

[tones2SS]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I'd like to put a Prius in the back of my big black dually - and take it for a ride...

One time I was at a gas station - filling up the dually - some clown comes in driving a Prius and starts mouthing off about all the fuel he's saving -- to which I said "THANK YOU 'cause I'm going to be using all of the fuel you saved!"

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Chris ---

Wait til those huggers find out that they have to buy a new battery... and what's left of the old one is about as toxic and it gets!

I love it Greg!!! That is good stuff.
I, personally would have had some "nice choice words" for the nice fella that mouthed off to you about his Prius.

[bigtyme1]

I'm hoping this is the big break the american builders have been wainting for, Lets hope they take it and run with it. Ford, Chevy or Dodge. I just want the american companies to come back strong.

[Jim Nilsen]

When making my gas pedal for my car I wanted to make the pressure easier and tried adding a return type spring for the pedal. It was a nightmare. But I learned one thing. When you put the pedal down and it sticks, it stays only where it was depressed the most. So how does a pedal all of a sudden increase the throttle more than where it was at the highest throttle position previously all on its own? the springs no matter which side it is on returns the throttle or pedal to a lesser position or leaves it there.

The bushing they are adding only lets the pedal go more freely and the springs would return it easier without sticking and that is all they could do.

I am with you guys that it is in the ecm programming or potentiometer problems.Logic just does not bring it to a spring or sticking problem. The people involved in the accidents I don't believe were ever accelerating at the amount of pedal travel to go as fast as the cars were accelerating to and were, from the way it sounds driving along and the car just takes off.

Now the magnets sound interesting enough to be part of the problem as they could have some kind of effect on the potentiometer that when the springs would be free from tension and it could move the pot on its own merit POSSIBLY?so to speak.

It is going to take more than a bushing to pull them out of this one but it is a good cover for fixing other problems that would cause bigger doubts about the reliablility and saftey of other components and get the car in for that fix.

We will see.

[Bow Tie 67]

Originally Posted by 69MyWay

Different shaped sensor - but works the same way (all magnets - in the pedal and throttle body).

Ding, ding, ding, my bet would be emi at the TB. Geez on the GM ETB the wiring going to it is separate and shielded to ground, and that is a simple wiper switch assy if I'm not mistaken. I work on aircraft, specifically all the electrical / electronic systems and shielded wiring is used extensively. Why do you think airlines ask you to turn off electronic devices..... a little overkill but better safe than dead.

[GregWeld]

Jim --

These new cars are drive by wire with servo motors etc -- not levers and springs.... you're stuck back with the dinosaurs my friend...

[Jim Nilsen]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Jim --

These new cars are drive by wire with servo motors etc -- not levers and springs.... you're stuck back with the dinosaurs my friend...

I think you missed the pic of the pedal torn apart with the springs in it and it seems you missed the point somehow?If the pedal is not a lever and doesn't need a return spring let me know how it comes back to idle?

I was using simple mechanical logic of a basic old school pedal to get your minds to really think about how could it be a sticky pedal? maybe my experience and ability to see the pics of the 2 pedals that have been posted everywhere are just too much info for my eyes these days.

I'll try to more clear next time I try to get you to use your imagination.

[Jim Nilsen]

Originally Posted by Bow Tie 67

Ding, ding, ding, my bet would be emi at the TB. Geez on the GM ETB the wiring going to it is separate and shielded to ground, and that is a simple wiper switch assy if I'm not mistaken. I work on aircraft, specifically all the electrical / electronic systems and shielded wiring is used extensively. Why do you think airlines ask you to turn off electronic devices..... a little overkill but better safe than dead.

This thought is more of a possibility than anything I have heard so far. The signal is getting info from somewhere to make the servo move.
The one other theory that has possibilties is how the computer is reading the algarythms for predicting the way the computer reponds to the style of driving it programs itself to. Someone with an unpredictable foot motion could in theory set the computer to do something to stay ahead of things. Highly unlikely but it is a theory I read from an engineer at another place.

EMI can make gauges read wrong and definately make them not function at all. We had computer problems at the copper wire mill I worked in that I had to spend a whole week buidling sheilds and moving the control center until the field from the annealer which was very high amperage would quit messing with it.