Velocity at Barrett Jackson

[GregWeld]

I really still just don't get this whole discussion. And I'm not trying to be a butthead here, that's just not my style... BUT (big butt)... top notch quality builds have always brought a premium return on resale.

What some of you just don't understand about the auction process is... it's about what time a car is running over the block... it depends on whether or not there is more than one bidder because regardless of what someone is willing to pay - they can't run themselves up. It takes TWO bidders MINIMUM and both bidders not only have to want the item - they have to be ABLE to bid what it takes to buy that item. END OF STORY. People can go on and on about what something SHOULD HAVE sold for - or what something was overpaid for... but none of that changes the facts. Great cars have good auction spots - they get talked about by everyone that is there to bid - they are inspected and looked at way before bidding begins - and in the end... if the car is something of value it will be bid on.

Now -- there was a particular Z16 car that was repeatedly billed as the "real deal"... but the real money in the room had already discussed this car ad infinitum and it was determined (right or wrong) that it was not "the real deal" -- and the bids reflected it. So people that don't know jack -- were all aghast that this car wasn't bid to the moon... but the fact is - if you were there - and you know who's who - you knew about this car and you weren't interested. I'm not saying I'm a who's who - but I knew enough and heard enough to know the scoop. Watching it on TV -- ain't going to get that info!

Now -- just like last year - and the year before... RICH PEOPLE are looking for bargains. They will take advantage of having the buying power while others suck wind. I was willing to buy - AS LONG AS I WAS GOING TO STEAL IT. Cars are like busses - there's another one coming along in 15 minutes. A big block 'vette is hardly something to get all slathered about. There's LOTS AND LOTS OF 'EM despite the bozos on the block telling you how rare something is.

That AMBR car -- that car cost way more to build than what it brought at auction and if a couple guys in the crowd know that - and liked the car - then it got the big bucks. Frankly - it's not big bucks... not compared to building one to replace it. My '32 will be really ordinary - and I will easily spend half what that car bid for... so really -- that car went for what it was worth.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is -- the prices paid are what they were worth at the time - and if some seem high - then it's because two deep pockets wanted it and were willing to bid it up and try to win the deal. Nothing special about it. Rich people - and I'm talking about people that can bid 200K and 300K for cars at an auction are used to getting what they want and if they pay a little too much for something - big deal. It's chump change. The weak hands - they drop out way before the item gets to overpriced because they actually care what they pay for stuff.

Cars that are ordinary - or that don't have a good backstory - or really aren't what they seem... they don't get bid up. If the car is a weird color - or poorly done - or doesn't have the right motor - or someone knows something about it... or is being run at a horrible time slot... or just doesn't have "mass appeal" - they aren't going for much because there's lots of competition at an auction like this for eyeballs and wallets.

Hope this makes sense?

[Stuart Adams]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I really still just don't get this whole discussion. And I'm not trying to be a butthead here, that's just not my style... BUT (big butt)... top notch quality builds have always brought a premium return on resale.

What some of you just don't understand about the auction process is... it's about what time a car is running over the block... it depends on whether or not there is more than one bidder because regardless of what someone is willing to pay - they can't run themselves up. It takes TWO bidders MINIMUM and both bidders not only have to want the item - they have to be ABLE to bid what it takes to buy that item. END OF STORY. People can go on and on about what something SHOULD HAVE sold for - or what something was overpaid for... but none of that changes the facts. Great cars have good auction spots - they get talked about by everyone that is there to bid - they are inspected and looked at way before bidding begins - and in the end... if the car is something of value it will be bid on.

Now -- there was a particular Z16 car that was repeatedly billed as the "real deal"... but the real money in the room had already discussed this car ad infinitum and it was determined (right or wrong) that it was not "the real deal" -- and the bids reflected it. So people that don't know jack -- were all aghast that this car wasn't bid to the moon... but the fact is - if you were there - and you know who's who - you knew about this car and you weren't interested. I'm not saying I'm a who's who - but I knew enough and heard enough to know the scoop. Watching it on TV -- ain't going to get that info!

Now -- just like last year - and the year before... RICH PEOPLE are looking for bargains. They will take advantage of having the buying power while others suck wind. I was willing to buy - AS LONG AS I WAS GOING TO STEAL IT. Cars are like busses - there's another one coming along in 15 minutes. A big block 'vette is hardly something to get all slathered about. There's LOTS AND LOTS OF 'EM despite the bozos on the block telling you how rare something is.

That AMBR car -- that car cost way more to build than what it brought at auction and if a couple guys in the crowd know that - and liked the car - then it got the big bucks. Frankly - it's not big bucks... not compared to building one to replace it. My '32 will be really ordinary - and I will easily spend half what that car bid for... so really -- that car went for what it was worth.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is -- the prices paid are what they were worth at the time - and if some seem high - then it's because two deep pockets wanted it and were willing to bid it up and try to win the deal. Nothing special about it. Rich people - and I'm talking about people that can bid 200K and 300K for cars at an auction are used to getting what they want and if they pay a little too much for something - big deal. It's chump change. The weak hands - they drop out way before the item gets to overpriced because they actually care what they pay for stuff.

Cars that are ordinary - or that don't have a good backstory - or really aren't what they seem... they don't get bid up. If the car is a weird color - or poorly done - or doesn't have the right motor - or someone knows something about it... or is being run at a horrible time slot... or just doesn't have "mass appeal" - they aren't going for much because there's lots of competition at an auction like this for eyeballs and wallets.

Hope this makes sense?

That's exactly my take. Very good.

[GregWeld]

Thanks Stuart.

I'm really just trying to share what I've learned over the years from going to lots of this stuff.

I'll point out another example that caught people by surprise... unless you knew what the hell you're doing!

A Black big block '67 vette was rolling on the block... in the seat next to me is my buddy Roy Sinor. Roy is nothing special - he's just the national judging chairman for the NCRS. We've been friends for years. He's a great guy. He doesn't know much about Corvettes.

Now this Black '67 was a real nice car - and was repeatedly billed as "the real deal". Some of us have owned lots of mid year vettes -- and BLACK is "da color"... rare, and desirable in anyones collection. This car was also billed as a J56 big brake car... and a 427 with A/C. Okay you say - super cool car....

One problem - J56 and A/C didn't come on the same car. <buzzer sounding>

So now -- what else is wrong with the car? The dip wad seller is swearing it's the "real deal" yet doesn't know his facts. Roy and I are laughing when the auction house repeats these facts and continues trying to "sell" the car as rare - and real - and on and on... But guess what? REAL Corvette buyers aren't bidding are they... because they don't want this "real deal" car in their collection. So once again - the house is touting the car as being "well bought". Yeah - it was - if you don't give a crap about reality.

[Flash68]

Greg - you obviously know your shiat when it comes to this. Thanks for sharing for the masses.

And I have always HATED it when they say "well bought" on TV...

[Van B]

I agree with what Greg says, but sometimes it doesn't take TWO bidders, just one and a good auctioneer who has a feel for what the guy will pay. The one time I attended B-J it blew my mind how many times the auctioneer ran off the money so they had to back up and say it was a miscommunication or fish around until they hooked another bidder. Yes I have only been there once, but I have been to a "few" auctions. To someone who does this every week it was pretty obvious.

The only big difference is that in a regular wholesale auction if the auctioneer tries to run a bidder and gets caught, the bidder usually gets pretty miffed and the car will not sell. I wouldn't doubt B-J buys a couple each sale just to preserve the illusion of a 100% sale if they get caught without a bidder.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Van B

I agree with what Greg says, but sometimes it doesn't take TWO bidders, just one and a good auctioneer who has a feel for what the guy will pay. The one time I attended B-J it blew my mind how many times the auctioneer ran off the money so they had to back up and say it was a miscommunication or fish around until they hooked another bidder. Yes I have only been there once, but I have been to a "few" auctions. To someone who does this every week it was pretty obvious.

The only big difference is that in a regular wholesale auction if the auctioneer tries to run a bidder and gets caught, the bidder usually gets pretty miffed and the car will not sell. I wouldn't doubt B-J buys a couple each sale just to preserve the illusion of a 100% sale if they get caught without a bidder.

Right on!

It's called "phantom bidding"...

There is also people that at an auction with NO RESERVE will buy their own car back - which is cheaper than letting it go at a huge loss.

I guess that was my point to the "rant" earlier -- is that there is more going on than just a simple "well bought" and "real deal" and 100% sold... and on and on. In the end it's all a whole bunch of fun... but just don't be snowed. Think about it. That bidder pit at BJ is FULL of guys that paid $500 for a bidder pass.... they KNOW THEIR CARS.... and if a car ain't getting the love you think it should get... there's 3000 "car guys" that are there and if they're not buying it - that should tell you "what it's worth".

[Payton King]

I agree with everything you say.

Congrats Bret on your sell. See you soon at some events this year.

[Vegas69]

And sometimes rich guys talk a big game on forums and don't bid on one car at Barrett Jackson.

[fesler]

I have been doing Barrett Jackson for over 20 years and a booth for 10 years now so I see it all. What most of you don’t get is if there is only one bidder the car will go cheap it takes multiple guys to bid to drive the price up. Like Bret said to me at the show he knew he had his car sold but had no idea of how high it would go because he was not sure how many people were after it. I think Bret did very well with the sale of this car because he got all the advertising dollars out of the car he could.

Greg has some great points but BJ should back the cars he sells, they sell all kinds of stuff like the corvette Greg mentioned without knowing crap about the car so these guys that don’t have a clue bid on something that is just nice but has no real value to it. Maybe to one of us it does because I don’t care about numbers I care about drivability, the cool factor and how well it was built.

Now I cut up matching number cars all the time ( I know I know but I do what I am paid to do) and everyone has sold for twice what they could have gotten as a matching number car but they have lots of time and money into these cars. To me a car that is a great street driver and built well is well worth the money because a stock numbers matching car is only worth going to a museum or your garage you can’t drive it or its worth nothing. The higher the miles the less its worth. Another factor to look at is the Charity cars, they will always do well because you have guys there with tons and tons of money that like to give for tax breaks. You would like to think it’s for the Charity but in most cases it’s because they want to be on TV and can use a huge break. One Corvette went over the block I think three times because the buyer donated it back so they could get more money for Craig’s Charity. All and all that was a very cool thing the guys did as they raised a lot of money.

Numbers are numbers at BJ and they push cars over other cars to boost the numbers it’s all about who and what you know there to get the good times as Greg said. You could have a $500,000 car and if it goes on a Wednesday or Thursday it will pull half of what a Friday or Saturday would do. That’s just the way the show goes and why most of us don’t want to put a car up there and risk it. I know a ton of guys that brought out 10-20 cars to sell and they were all over the place with numbers some OK and some great but they were stressed to the hills all week waiting to see what they would get. To some it’s just fun and they want to be on TV or they have more money than brains. Either way if you have never been you should go to one of them for a day and just watch the auction it’s a great time.

[fesler]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

And sometimes rich guys talk a big game on forums and don't bid on one car at Barrett Jackson.

you nailed that one