DSE vs. SpeedTech Performance. . . - Page 5 - Lateral-g Forums

colorado80439 · #41 02-16-2016, 09:06 PM

I'm sure all application are different, but for my installation, 1st gen w/ LS7, the Speedtech Extreme will require their sheet metal oil pan with remote oil filter and no provisions for a low mount A/C compressor. That would add over $3500 to the build price (adding a front runner, oil pan, remote oil filter). Sure I like the idea of some wider meat up front, but by saving my current front drive low mount A/C compressor system and oil pan set up I can stretch the front and have a wider track.
Disclaimer: Information based on my current knowledge so I could be l afu and would like to be proven incorrect.

colorado80439 · #42 02-16-2016, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

GROUND CLEARANCE!! Exactly. we decided to do a 3/4 length header for that very reason. in testing Ultimate tells me they are only 10hp down on some of there 3/4 length VS full length. I figured that was acceptable as full length headers that are SMASHED not only look and sound bad but are probably worse the 10hp Plus the customer isn't happy.

I HATE headers that hang down this way you will be able to run a 3" tube as close to the floor as possible the Trans cross member will be the deciding factor but at that point oval tubing would be the answer.

Does the Ultimate LS swept header work with the Speedtech subframe. Not sure what a 3/4 header is?? or who's making them

Blake Foster · #43 02-17-2016, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colorado80439

I'm sure all application are different, but for my installation, 1st gen w/ LS7, the Speedtech Extreme will require their sheet metal oil pan with remote oil filter and no provisions for a low mount A/C compressor. That would add over $3500 to the build price (adding a front runner, oil pan, remote oil filter). Sure I like the idea of some wider meat up front, but by saving my current front drive low mount A/C compressor system and oil pan set up I can stretch the front and have a wider track.
Disclaimer: Information based on my current knowledge so I could be l afu and would like to be proven incorrect.

ACTUALLY KWIK has come up with a new adaptor bracket that WILL ALLOW for a low mount A/C you will need a small Sanden 507 compressor but that is now an option, I would have to confirm if it is available or adaptable to a LS7

**GregWeld** · #44 02-17-2016, 07:25 AM

And info like this -- is EXACTLY why you call SpeedTech! They have the newest hottest subframe on the market... designed by Ron Sutton... that takes the largest tires... that has the best specs for handling AND YOU CAN GET JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE NEEDED TO COMPLETE YOUR PROJECT.

In other words - it's called KNOWLEDGE AND SUPPORT that comes with the sale. Invaluable info when building a project.

Blake Foster · #45 02-17-2016, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colorado80439

Does the Ultimate LS swept header work with the Speedtech subframe. Not sure what a 3/4 header is?? or who's making them

NO, we have used several of their models all of which had interference issues, we have designed a long tube set for the First gen and they are in production now. for the Second Gen we opted to do a 3/4 length header the cars floor sits so low that a full length header would have hung down almost 2" below the frame rail. this way a 3" 45 deg bend will mate up to the collector and will be about flush with the frame rail when finished.
Ultimate Headers is building them, they use 321 material and have some nice cast elbows and flanges,

Ron Sutton · #46 02-17-2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badazz81z28

Proof is on the pavement, not a sheet of paper. I'm Really excited to see a comparable year/model cars compete to show which handles better. I wouldn't be so quick to say anything negative about C5/C6 spindles or OEM steering racks. If it works, it works. Modern cars especially vettss are kicking butt out there at the autocross

I'm not an debating kind of guy, but didn't want you or anyone to get the wrong impression. The C6 front suspension ... and spindle ... is a good design. (The C7 is a little better) I work with several clients with C5/C6 Corvettes to improve their performance ... as well as tons of clients with C5/C6 based front ends in Muscle cars.

The problem is when a person or shop uses the C6 suspension components in a different car and mounts them in significantly different locations than they were in the C5/C6. These are pivot points for the suspension geometry. So we're not really getting the C6 geometry ... just some of the parts.

I understand why & no one is to be faulted. The challenge for C6 based suspension builders is engine location. In the C5/C6, the engine is behind the rack. For a clip to work in most muscle cars ... the engine has to sit over the rack. Otherwise the car owner would need to cut the firewall & move the engine back 8-10" which is not desired by most customers.

So the rack ... commonly a '97-2004 Mustang rack ... gets mounted several inches lower to be under the engine. To get the bump steer & camber gain optimized ... requires different control arm mounting locations than the C5/C6 ... and this messes up the roll center location. It could be fixed with a custom spindle, but the cost is substantial.

As far as OEM Mustang rack durability goes ... with sticky 275-315 tires in autocross competition ... it is the car owners running them that have had failures & expressed frustration. In designing the new Speedtech front end to run 315s in the same demanding application ... we stepped up the rack to dual power & heavier duty at a cost around 3 times as much. I'm sure everyone understands Speedtech didn't do that because they wanted to spend 3X more. It simply eliminates that problem for Speedtech eXtreme clip buyers.

Best wishes everyone !

badazz81z28 · #47 02-17-2016, 06:07 PM

How does the DSE frame reflect in your comments? Are you seeing rack issues on their frame or handling issues?

Vegas69 · #48 02-17-2016, 06:46 PM

Your question was answered.

Many variables come into play. For starters, the power steering pump, cooler, fluid, compound, temperature, etc...

Is a mustang 2 rack made for racing?

I loved my DSE subframe. I think you own one, it's a great piece.

alongfortheride · #49 02-17-2016, 06:50 PM

Just a note I have a Speedtech Extreme subframe. I currently have an autocraft oil pan which fits fine on my lsa. I am also running a stock ctsv accessory drive.With low mount ac using the small vintage air compressor

**GregWeld** · #50 02-17-2016, 07:13 PM

This whole discussion reminds me of so many others. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has a favorite.

The DSE is years old - nothing wrong with it - but it's not much different than discussing C4 vs C5 vs C6 and now the newest C7....

When the C4 came out it was the best thing going... Now? It's still good - but not great. When the C8 comes out - it SHOULD be an improvement over the C7

The SpeedTech ExtReme is the newest - fresh design - best geometry currently available...

There will never be a same model - same horsepower - same configuration - same driver - same day - same track "battle" that will satisfy someone that wants to own a DSE part... Or for that matter, a SpeedTech product. The magazine "tests" all cloak their reviews with BS so they don't offend an advertiser... and in most cases of multiple product tests "many" advertisers.

In the end - a crap driver with great products in a well sorted car... will finish back of the pack. A great driver with a half assed POS will probably be up near the front. I've run with Miata's I can barely keep up with... I've run right past ZR1's (shaking my head).

Do your homework - base a purchase on product, service, delivery, after the sale service, parts combo you intend to use. Then make a choice and build the car accordingly. Drive it and have fun. By the time you're half way thru the process there will be 10 newer products out that make your's look antique.

And the debate continues.... LOL