Sometimes things don’t go as planned

[GregWeld]

I like the "I only come here for Ron's posts......"


Okay then. What could anyone say to that?


I come here because my FRIENDS are here. I'm interested in their lives, and their well being, and their projects, and their issues, and all the other stuff that goes with that.

Is that too many commas? LOL

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Can you please ban Charley?


Oh wait -- he's moved on to "The Military Channel".

If anyone deserves it...

[DBasher]

Originally Posted by Scratch

No there has been nothing explained "clear".

What am I missing, or better yet what are y’all missing? Look at the relationship between these two for the last few years, it’s nothing but good times and helping each other out....not only with driver coaching and a rebuild of one car but business and connections. Ron hasn’t mentioned much about Greg’s help other than the friendship but I guarantee you if asked he won’t deny any of it.

Ron- how much has Greg helped you and your business since you moved to the PT world?

A car was built on an agreed upon time line, go read the first few pages of the build thread.
Both parties have agreed that the car wasn’t up to the expectations, not only the first time out but the second as well.
Ron admits fault for a bunch of things he knows nothing about...which wasn’t the story when he was pimping the track warrior brand.

HOW MUCH MORE MONEY/TIME DO YOU GIVE SOMEONE BEFORE YOU’RE THE FOOL?

So I ask, what’s not clear? Greg airing it all or Ron not knowing what he’s selling?

[mfain]

Originally Posted by DBasher

What am I missing, or better yet what are y’all missing? Look at the relationship between these two for the last few years, it’s nothing but good times and helping each other out....not only with driver coaching and a rebuild of one car but business and connections. Ron hasn’t mentioned much about Greg’s help other than the friendship but I guarantee you if asked he won’t deny any of it.

Ron- how much has Greg helped you and your business since you moved to the PT world?

A car was built on an agreed upon time line, go read the first few pages of the build thread.
Both parties have agreed that the car wasn’t up to the expectations, not only the first time out but the second as well.
Ron admits fault for a bunch of things he knows nothing about...which wasn’t the story when he was pimping the track warrior brand.

HOW MUCH MORE MONEY/TIME DO YOU GIVE SOMEONE BEFORE YOU’RE THE FOOL?

So I ask, what’s not clear? Greg airing it all or Ron not knowing what he’s selling?

We all understand that Greg and Ron have issues, but that is one customer and one vendor. I'll bet every vendor has a customer or two that had different expectations or was not on the same page. No argument. What some of us are concerned about are the implied accusations from "dozens" of un-named sources with non-specified claims. It's a lot like listening to MSNBC.

Pappy

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by racerwon

lots of posers, wanta be's and fan bois. step up or shut up. racers would take u out back after a race and kick ur ass, wouldnt wait 2 days after an actor gave his fake performance to settle the score. keep posin, we who were there should give u an academy award. JODY FEEL FREE TO POST PEOPLES NAMES AND EMAIL ADDRESSES. BIG FISH, LITTLE POND !

Now I feel like Pappy --- I don't understand what you're saying here....

[DBasher]

Originally Posted by mfain

We all understand that Greg and Ron have issues, but that is one customer and one vendor. I'll bet every vendor has a customer or two that had different expectations or was not on the same page. No argument. What some of us are concerned about are the implied accusations from "dozens" of un-named sources with non-specified claims. It's a lot like listening to MSNBC.

Pappy

Ron mentioned the time line that he failed to get customers what they had paid for in the time line they were told, so there’s that. I think it’s also been mentioned in other threads that the design of parts weren’t exactly what would work and changes needed to be made. If you take the time to read more than the Sutton posts you’ll be able to piece together some of the uneasiness folks have experienced.

Of course you can always change the channel.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Scratch

No there has been nothing explained "clear".

Scratch -- despite your numerous PM's to me for behind the scenes info and details... you got none then - and you'll get none here.

It's been explained numerous times - if people care to share their issues - they're free to do so... OR NOT.

You might see why they'd choose not to -- just read the statements in this thread. The first time posters riding in to defend... despite not fully comprehending any of it.

I don't want to put up with it and I've been around here for a very long time and have one or two friends here and there. And the folks that also have had issues are, after reading all of this, they're thanking themselves for not joining in.

[JeffPeoples]

I have been following Ron's posts the beginning. They have been the main reason for me visiting this forum. When his first posts hit, I had just bought a full chassis from an aftermarket company (Street Rod Garage) as the basis for a serious autocross/track day car. It had beautiful welds, but was ready far later than promised, and was missing some expensive parts. Ron's posts educated me on how to measure a chassis, and what to look for that will affect performance. After doing this, I knew what I had was bogus. I got out the plasma cutter and started over with all of the suspension mounts. Then the cross members, then the frame rails. Pretty soon I had nothing left. I started fabbing some things myself, but realized that I was in over my head, and that only working most Saturdays was going to take far too long to complete the car.
I decided to give Ron a call, and we had a long talk. By this time he was selling suspension parts. I ended up buying a front clip for my chassis, and later most of a rear clip. I found a local fab shop that seemed to be a good fit (they had done King of The Hammers builds, cool!). A year or so and a lot of money later, I had to get the car back to my place due to the slow pace. The shop ended up prioritizing the quickie projects and odd jobs, to the determent of the full builds that he had on hand collecting dust. I ended up doing more work myself waiting for a good shop in Texas to get an opening, which was therapeutic, all things considered. I had been buying misc. parts (including Forgeline wheels) through Ron all along, mainly due to the expert advice he provided during the ordering process.
Were all of the things he did for me perfect? No. As I discovered an issue here or there, Ron took care of them. I noticed that responses got a little slower, but I understood his business was going through some growing pains (I knew this because he told me so). I never felt like Ron was trying to put something over on me, or that he was being dishonest in anyway. In my business, we sometimes have issues being as responsive as I would like, so I understand that "things don't always go as planned". As I am a Buick guy, I am used to waiting on parts and services for my cars. There are only about 3 good Buick engines builders in the country, and only one Buick speed parts vendor. I have waited 6 months for a set of cast aluminum valve covers, and years for engines to be built. These involve specialized, low volume, and sometimes one off parts. Just like the highly custom track toys that many of us on this site are building. Patience is a virtue in these instances.
There are many good vendors (and people) on this site, and I have met and patronized some of them (Kore3, Ridetech, Detroit Speed, Holley come to mind). What sets Ron apart is his willingness to share and educate with intricate details about suspension theories, workings, and experiences from a racing environment. Watch a race on TV and see how much real tech you can glean from the commentators. I have also attended and enjoyed Ron's seminars, and will do so again.
I hope anyone that feels they have not been treated fairly by Ron will give him a chance to take care of their issues. I believe he will.

[214Chevy]

Lose $20...no big deal
Lose $200...you're pissed
Lose $2,000...you're ready to kick some a$$
Lose $20,000..you're ready to kill a mf'er!!
Lose $200,000...we'd all understand exactly where Greg is coming from.

I say all of this to say, the people in this thread that are acting as if Greg is the bad guy would be singing a different tune if they'd lost all of their hard earned money. No matter if it was $20...$2,000 or $200,000. When one loses his money and doesn't get what he pays for, nothing else matters. It's easy for others to come here and ask or say why didn't Greg do this or that. Or did you give Ron a chance to correct this or that. If it was your $200k, would you still be as passive? I highly doubt it. Besides, not that it's super easy, but providing straight panels, a legitimate engine and for the sake of me...a decent wrap aren't what you would call difficult task if you're in this business as business owner.

[GregWeld]

Jeff --- TOTALLY AGREE 100% with your post.


Let's rehash the rehashed hash.....


Was this the first time I met Ron and I just picked up a catalog -- pointed to page 119 and ordered a car built? Kinda like ordering off Amazon right? Yeah... NO.

You've bought some parts and tech from him.... over a period of time. Hey! You know what? Me too!

You attended his seminars and learned some stuff. Hey! You know what? Me too!

Do I have lots of friends that have bought parts and tech from him? Oh yeah... several.

Have there been issues with some of that along the way. Yep. No biggie... Sh!t happens. Delays? Sure. So what. Some of the crap around here has been being worked on for years... so a couple/few months is not really a deal breaker.

For about the last 5 years (give or take doesn't matter - it's not weeks - it's not 3 months).... Ron has been paid ($3,000 plus expenses. It's in his catalog - page 400 - for those that are all uptight about discussing money) to be at every track event with me. That's usually 3 or 4 events per year. For this I got great advice - tires and brakes info and service - driving skills coaching - car management services. He took many seconds off my lap times - had my cars driving 100% - and we had fun too! He was part of the track family. Included in all the diners... introduced to all my friends. It was great.

I had him completely re-do all the suspension and brakes and wheels and everything on my '65 Mustang track car. I think with spare wheels and all the stuff - it was $30,000+ (it was more than that but who cares). I considered it a bargain. The improvement was beyond comparison. It made the car so much fun to drive. I considered him a genius!

During all of this - we talked business - we talked about who to do business with and whom I thought would be a PITA to do business with.... He mentored me - I mentored him. We had fun, and we could talk about lots of stuff, because we both like to talk.

When he wanted to develop the brake line -- and needed some help -- I didn't hesitate to be there. In fairness to Ron - I screwed him a little bit by coming down with terminal cancer during this - and because of trying to deal with that and build a new house etc - I didn't get him the money the day after we agreed to do this. It took a few months before I got off my meds etc and then I did what I said I was going to do.... So some of his stuff was probably delayed because of me. So sorry - but dying takes up some of your time. Someone else's sh!t wasn't at the top of my list. We both knew and understood this.

When some friends wanted to expand their subs and suspension offerings -- I pushed a relationship that I thought would be beneficial to all. It did - it was - it is. The product is STELLAR - WORKS - is made and manufactured by an actual manufacturer/production shop in house. It's their product - not his - he was just hired for his expertise and he has a lot of it in certain areas! What did I get out of this? Friends. I'm happy to watch the success. I am on the bottom pushing up. We need great stuff in our little corner of the world. We need great suppliers to bring us great stuff. Makes me happy! In all the years of knowing the manufacturer as personal friends - do you know how many parts and pieces and money I've spent with them? ZERO. Why? I had Ron and he ran my cars and I wasn't building a car etc. My point? I was just helping some mutual friends.

So some of you think you have this special secret sauce relationship because you're a customer, and you've spoken to Ron on the phone a few times. Great! He's a great guy. Knows about a lot of stuff we all think is some kind of "secret" (he uses that a lot).

Fast forward -- big new catalog - lots of pretty parts and stuff.... many pages devoted to "secret sauce" and how many cars have been built and how many races won and on and on. AWESOME -- here we go -- Business is on the upswing and everything is peachy. Couldn't be happier for the guy!

Hey! I have a great idea! Let's build a catalog car and we'll use this as a shining brand new super duper secret sauce example of just what you have to offer! This is going to be so much fun! I needed some fun! BAM! Wired $100K to get started - dates set - choices made - PRI show walk about to pick some parts and do a show and tell. Lots of builders there - we pointed to the good, the bad, the ugly, and talked pricing and quality and blah blah blah.....

Test and Tune day is a complete disaster... the car is the worst looking pile of crap I think I've ever seen. Excuses made and accepted. It isn't our first goat rodeo. No biggie. I've got history with the man. I've got confidence in his skills. I've heard for 5 years all the stories of racing, and disaster, and the recovery, and the winning. I think the car made 3 laps. Well - so what - that's the way this stuff goes sometimes.

The car goes back to the shop - and is supposed to be all fixedededed up and made pertty and she'll be ready to rock next time.

Next time is purposely set so we have a shop to work in (my track side shop) with a lift and tools and tire shop next door etc. We add an extra day for test and tune - so a total of 3 days. Knowing full well this isn't going to fire up and go out and be problem free. Remember the goat? Yeah the goat is well worn = it ain't our first time. Don't be a dickhead and think to yourself -- "well I've had lots of issues with my stuff so what?" At this event -- We're having the exact same issues that killed the first test and tune.... EXACTLY.... and lets add even more issues... Ron is there. The builder is there. We've now added an electronics man - and a mechanic. They've disassembled, and reassembled, this car a couple times.

The "fun" is now not fun.... as I watch the carnival unfold... But I'm excited to at least be able to see what we've created. From a distance the car is just bad to the bone. It sounds healthy. It looks MEAN. It's full of secret sauce. I have a pro driver (thank god)... and before I die - I'm going to witness the magic that's been built. YEAH NO. No magic. Just a crappy looking - embarrassing pile of crap that is known in the paddock as "the one lap Mustang". LOL

At the end of day one (this is really day two of the car history) I told Sutton in no uncertain terms --- if the car doesn't make first call and run all day -- pack your Sh!t and get out of here. OH YEAH I'M FIRED UP BY NOW. My dream is a pile of junk and an extremely embarrassing pile at that.

Well -- the sh!t show continues day two. My buddies that are with me are ready to take them all out back and pound the crap out of them (not literally). They want him fired on the spot. Walk the plank. We even made plans to do that - and drive down to Sonoma and watch the NorCal Shelby Nationals.... rather than watch another day of rinse and repeat clown show and oil wiping and cluster F'n. I resisted that - and I defended him and I held them back.

Did we "win" -- yeah. But what does that really mean?? In NASA TTU -- if you could go out and run ONE LAP and post the fastest time of the day. That's a win. Would you be happy with that win. A little bit. Shows the car has potential -- what it really shows is what a pro driver like Benny Moon can do with a pile of crap. He could go out - warm up - blast two laps - and bring it in for repairs.

That became a "strategy". Clean up in aisle 3!! Thrash - bandaid - clean up - run two laps - repeat.

Day 3 -- same sh!t different day. Another one lap "win". Sorry folks - this isn't winning.... Was to Sutton and crew. Wasn't to the 7 or 8 guys that are witnessing this secret sauce.

So --- to those of you that think I should give him a chance to fix it. Go pound sand.

To those that fail to grasp ALL of the situation with not just my pile, but all the other stories I've heard since.... Just shut the F up and go about your secret sauce filled day.

NOBODY HAS GIVEN MORE THAN ME.

SPENT MORE THAN ME.

DONE MORE FOR HIM THAN ME.

SPENT MORE TIME WITH HIM THAN ME.

I will have the problems fixed - but not on his budget, and not with the clueless people that created all the BS in the first place. If you weren't a part of it - no amount of explanation would suffice.