Camaro XV

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Mark, Is it safe to say that a majority of the cars on this site would see a disadvantage to this set up? I distinctly remember Wilwood telling me that many don't get enough heat in the brakes to make them perform at the top of their capabilities in our segment.

If you’re not pushing your car real hard, big brakes and brake cooling should not be an issue. On my cars at my power and grip levels brakes and brake cooling become a big deal. Red Devil was right on the edge of not having enough brakes. My spotter we telling me my rotors were yellow the last time we tested it. I also tuned the clear coat on the calipers yellow.

On most Brembos they have a clear coat. Look at CTS-Vs at a track day. If the guy is on it, his front calipers will not be silver they will be gold. At work we get them to a carmel color.

On that note anyone doing hard track work should run a high perfromance brake fluid. I change mine twice a season.

ABS brakes also drive rotor temps up. ABS also allows later braking points which means you are trying to get gid of more heat over a shorter period of time. If you are braking at the 5 going into a turn and I'm braking at the 2 my rotor temps are higher and I'm going faster.

Thanks Mark

[57hemicuda]

Originally Posted by Stielow

This is the general idea.

The lower valance is open and the outer courners are brake cooling ducts and the center is for the heat exchangers.

That is exactly how I did the Mustang coolers, even shaped like the the new Camaro's. Maybe for once I was ahead of my time.LOL

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by Cris@JCG

I expected that some of work you did on the new Z28 would trickle down into your new 69..

What are your thoughts on traction control for these old hot rods? Currently researching Racetronix & Bosch Motorsports ABS..

Traction control is a very tricky topic. Can it make you faster? Yes. Is it very hard to tune? Yes.

Not until the Z/28 was PTM (Performance Traction Management) ie Traction Control equal to drivers best effort or in some cases better. The other thing about PTM is it is much easier to drive fast.

BTM is very complicated. It is a fully integrated system that uses the following sensors:

Throttle position
4 wheel speed sensors
4 suspension travel sensors
Lateral sensor
Longitudinal sensor
Yaw sensor
Tire Pressure Sensors

All this feeds into a predictive tire models that predicts how much power the rear tires can take. We even use the suspension travel sensors to know if the car is airborne so not to cut power when it lands (Flying Car Mode).

So can it be done? Yes. Do I use it on my Hot Rods? No.

I don't have the time or the money to calibrate it. At 875 HP the integration time takes a long time and a lot of tires.

If I had a shop and sold cars to the public. (Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff) I would think about slip based traction control to keep people from hurting themselves. My cars can do 3rd gear roll on burn outs! The pro race teams tune the TC systems to each track so it is easy. A one sizes fits all calibration is tricky.

Mark

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Stielow

(Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff)

High torque stuff too!



Back on traction control - KTM's new traction management system on their 1290 motors is modulating power via the throttle shafts. A qualified friend who's old-school anti-technology said the feel of the system is very impressive. Is throttle shaft/butterfly modulation being used in the automotive world?

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by Sieg

High torque stuff too!



Back on traction control - KTM's new traction management system on their 1290 motors is modulating power via the throttle shafts. A qualified friend who's old-school anti-technology said the feel of the system is very impressive. Is throttle shaft/butterfly modulation being used in the automotive world?

All new GM engines are throttle by wire, so yes the PTM system pulls throttle also. But, moving spark or dropping cylinders is faster. When you want and small correction in torque it is better than pulling throttle.

Mark

[clill]

Does that pic make my feet look big ?

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by clill

Does that pic make my feet look big ?

Not if you're at the Circus.

[Cris@JCG]

Thank you Mark.. I knew this would be a huge learning curve for me on these two subjects.. My biggest concerns on implimenting TC & ABS units that are designed for racing is the liabitiys.. I will have to have to discusss this with my customer..

Originally Posted by Stielow

Traction control is a very tricky topic. Can it make you faster? Yes. Is it very hard to tune? Yes.

Not until the Z/28 was PTM (Performance Traction Management) ie Traction Control equal to drivers best effort or in some cases better. The other thing about PTM is it is much easier to drive fast.

BTM is very complicated. It is a fully integrated system that uses the following sensors:

Throttle position
4 wheel speed sensors
4 suspension travel sensors
Lateral sensor
Longitudinal sensor
Yaw sensor
Tire Pressure Sensors

All this feeds into a predictive tire models that predicts how much power the rear tires can take. We even use the suspension travel sensors to know if the car is airborne so not to cut power when it lands (Flying Car Mode).

So can it be done? Yes. Do I use it on my Hot Rods? No.

I don't have the time or the money to calibrate it. At 875 HP the integration time takes a long time and a lot of tires.

If I had a shop and sold cars to the public. (Not that guy in Woodland that can drive high HP stuff) I would think about slip based traction control to keep people from hurting themselves. My cars can do 3rd gear roll on burn outs! The pro race teams tune the TC systems to each track so it is easy. A one sizes fits all calibration is tricky.

Mark

[kwhizz]

Another..................

[Vegas69]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

I'm inclined to believe that cooling would help Wilwoods A LOT. When I ran their brakes on my Camaro the aggressive street pads faded quickly, and the track pads worked right up until the time I boiled the brake fluid. I'm probably about ten development cycles behind Mark though, but stainless or better pistons and some cooling look to be an improvement.

I was catering to the average guy on this site. For a mainly street application and autocross in a conventional brake set up, especially with manual brakes, I think heat is your friend. When you get to repetitive brake stop challenges and road racing, I agree completely. I cooked my brake fluid at almost every multi event and road course.

Maybe a set up when you can block it off for street and autocross.

Thanks for the explanation Mark...