Art Morrison vs Detroit Speed. - Page 6 - Lateral-g Forums

Vegas69 · #51 05-30-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcal87

Really the look makes no difference to me as long as it rides good and drives well but if i had to choose a look most likely DSE.

You're going to have to make the decisioin. I wouldn't let a few bucks pursuade you. Call them both and place your order.

70rs · #52 05-30-2009, 12:25 PM

I've been following this thread and wanted to say thanks for all the good info.
Based on the reply to my question on the first page about the stock sub frame, I will be staying with the factiry unit with a few upgrades. Arms, shocks, brakes... I will weld up all the seams though.
I have a motor to build and am thinking the money is better spent there.
Thanks guys.

customcam · #53 05-30-2009, 07:53 PM

Ring them up, emails fall through the system sometimes

https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthre...ght=matt+jones

Mkelcy · #54 05-31-2009, 10:03 AM

I have no dog in this fight, as I already have a different brand subframe, but I wanted to make a few observations:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky67

DSE is hydroformed subframe, so it is the high tech subframe. Everyone else builds mandrel bent subframes.

I think people are using "high tech" to describe a look rather than the application of technology. The DSE frame is, I think, intended to imitate the look of the factory piece.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky67

DSE also used C6 spindles on their subframe.

Like DSE, the AME subframe uses C5/C6 uprights. The AME frame also uses C5/C6 upper and lower control arms. It looks like (but I can't tell for sure) DSE uses "one-off" proprietary upper and lower control arms, which may or may not be readily available if and when one needs to be replaced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky67

I don't see a splined sway bar on the AME subframe, and it looks very cool and well engineered on how DSE hid in the other crossmember.

AME recently announced a splined sway bar for their frames and subframes - https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=20667. It's also pretty easy to source a splined sway bar, pillow blocks and custom bent arms from places like http://www.1speedway.com, as I recently did for my subframe.

I can't tell from any pictures I've seen online, but it looks like the pillow blocks for the DSE splined sway bar are part of the subframe. Is that the case and, if so, what size is the sway bar - 1" or 1.25" or larger? If 1", that may limit your ability to tune the sway bar rate for more aggressive uses.

For example from the Speedway Engineering site, a 1" sway bar 36" long acting through a 12" arm has a maximum rate of 200 lbs for 5 degrees of twist. A 1.25" sway bar 36" long acting through a 12" arm has a minimum rate of 236 lbs for 5 degrees of twist up to a maximum rate of 488 lbs for 5 degrees of twist. The external pillow blocks for the AME frame allow for the use of their bar or (assuming it's a 1" bar, it actually looks like it might be larger) replacement with larger diameter, stouter bar.

So the questions I'd have are - can the DSE UCA/LCA be easily sourced following, for example, a collision, what size is the DSE sway bar, how is it mounted, and can it be easily tuned (by replacing the bar) for higher rates?

Mkelcy · #55 05-31-2009, 01:40 PM

Jeff: I'm not looking to get into a pissing match with you. You've had your say and I've had mine. I'll leave it at that.

Vegas69 · #56 05-31-2009, 02:21 PM

Check with DSE but I talked to them about the sway bar quite a while ago. It's a pretty standard roundy round piece that you could easily buy some extra bars and play. It's really easy to swap out as well. I think the one that's in there is perfect so far. The pillow blocks are not part of the subframe and either are the bushings.

Mkelcy · #57 05-31-2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Check with DSE but I talked to them about the sway bar quite a while ago. It's a pretty standard roundy round piece that you could easily buy some extra bars and play. It's really easy to swap out as well. I think the one that's in there is perfect so far. The pillow blocks are not part of the subframe and either are the bushings.

If you can go up to a 1.25" bar, and pillow blocks for the 1.25" bar fit inside the crossmember, that issue is completely negated.

carbuff · #58 05-31-2009, 08:32 PM

I am going through the same debate in my head for a project that I'm putting together right now... AME vs. DSE.

I don't think I've seen this issue mentioned yet, but I'm curious to hear from the owners of the DSE setup what they feel about this. It is my understanding that the DSE control arms don't allow you to adjust the coilover ride height without separating the control arm from the spindle. Do I understand this correctly? And if so, from an adjustment standpoint, do people consider this a concern?

I understand that once all is set up to your liking, this shouldn't be an issue any longer.

Appreciate any thoughts on this subject...

Vegas69 · #59 05-31-2009, 08:36 PM

Absolutely a myth...I've adjusted mine more times than I care to think about.

carbuff · #60 05-31-2009, 08:42 PM

Thanx Todd... I know I've seen more than one person bring it up before, so is the problem that people don't know how to do it, or that special tools are required? When I first heard this, it became a big red flag to me, so debunking the myth (for me at least) would be great!