Question for our metal fabricators!!!

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by DOOM

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Roger I would fly out for that in a heart beat!! I think its a great idea!!!And I would'nt care what it cost just to get some hands on training from the pros would be invaluable!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok Tomorrow morning and 1 million dollars. I will cover lodging and airfare and food.

[wellis77]

This thread has easily become one of the best I've read. Thank you to all who have contributed, and thank you to Mario for stepping out and asking the first questions. I have learned a lot and can not wait to get back to town Sunday night and start working on this stuff.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Greg I've made every mistake you talked about!!

So have I buddy -- and it's why I'm trying to share the love here.... there's so much to learn when doing this stuff. You should - like many - be an expert just about the time you do the very last inch of welding on your project.

Most of us don't do this kind of work all day every day - and yet we want our work to look as though we do. It just isn't that simple. BUT it's why we all hang here and try to help each other through.

You mention back lighting to see your work. My statement here is - then your helmet glass is WRONG/too dark. If you're TIG welding the helmet glass is even more important because many times on thin sheet you're just barely using any amps (voltage really).

I have several helmets -- My favorite is my Optrel. It has a large view area - and has many adjustments... and I can really dial it in to my liking. I'm old - wear bi-focals - and I'm old and I wear bi-focals.... If I can't see -- then I can't weld.

Can't stress how important that part is. You've got to be able to see before you start - and you have to see every facet while you're welding. If you can't then you'll make poopie. Get an auto darkening helmet and spend some money on a GOOD ONE that is adjustable - otherwise your experience and fun quotient just won't be good.

With TIG you adjust the heat as you go - start high - lowering it as the puddle forms up nicely - and even lower as you finish off. It's like running the gas pedal on the car... so if you can barely see when you're starting out with the max voltage -- you lower it and you won't see diddly. I tend to lay a test bead on some scrap to get the helmet set (since I weld on all manor of stuff so am always messing with the settings) before I ever try to weld on something that counts. It only takes a second or two to start the arc and dial the helmet with the other hand... no need to add fill etc while doing this and the gauge of metal doesn't count either -- I'm just setting the helmet to the voltage I want to use for the real work.

I can tell you this --- I've NEVER EVER been close to the recommended helmet settings for a given weld setting. I'm always FAR less. I don't care what someone else needs --- it's ME that needs to see!

[CamaroAJ]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

blah blah blah

greg, i really enjoy reading your posts because they are always informative.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by CamaroAJ

greg, i really enjoy reading your posts because they are always informative.

Thanks buddy!

I'm just trying to be helpful with the experiences I have... which isn't diddly compared to the pros here - but they don't really have the time to post up the amount of info that it takes sometimes to help someone along. I've got all day... :>) and I type really fast. And I have a big mouth...

[Ron in SoCal]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Thanks buddy!

I'm just trying to be helpful with the experiences I have... which isn't diddly compared to the pros here - but they don't really have the time to post up the amount of info that it takes sometimes to help someone along. I've got all day... :>) and I type really fast. And I have a big mouth...

And you're smart! I don't care what Roger says...

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by ironworks

Ok Tomorrow morning and 1 million dollars. I will cover lodging and airfare and food.

Mario -- I'd do it for a buck....

[ccracin]

This is a great thread. Especially for me as I am also trying to learn with the new Tig welder. I have been reading and practicing. Things are going better. I'm a visual person. Here is the result of the best I have done so far. I am far from happy, but mind you I've only burned about 4 filler rods with the TIG so far.



I spent a lot of time fitting the panel I made. It was good, but the second one is better. As usual. I am getting ready to start welding the second one. I have it tacked in. Look along the bottom. I was trying to keep everything fitting as I went using a hammer and dolly. I didn't make a weld longer than 1/2" at a time before cooling. I was also hammering the welds as I went to try and keep the panel from shrinking in. When I was done and started the grinding/sanding I realized the panel I added along the bottom was slightly proud. You can see this in the photo. Any suggestions as to how to work this out? A small amount of filler will cover as it is only about 5-10 thou. proud, but I would like to make it better. The same thing happened with the 2 plug weld spots you can see.

This brings me to my next question. What happens when you are butt welding sheet metal and you can't get to the back side to hammer the welds and work the joint? No matter how slow I go and how small the welds are, I almost always end up with the weld bead/HAZ low. Do you use a stud gun or something to raise that area? I will be getting to these types of welds very soon. That's enough for now. Any comments/advice good and bad will be greatly appreciated.

I don't mind others learning from my mistakes!

[GregWeld]

I'm going to let better body men than I answer these questions -- but I would say on the area being "proud" (high) after hammer welding is because you stretched the panel too much. You don't have to pound the weld perfectly flat to save yourself a lot of work with the grinder. 3 pounds of shizzaz in a 1 pound can. When you're fit up is really tight - you weld - you hammer flat - the metal that is hammered flat is going to GROW not shrink.

Ever heard of a shrinking hammer? They work if you know how to use 'em.

Hammer and dolly work is a black magic art form... I've seen people take a perfectly good panel and RUIN it because they just think you pick up and hammer and start banging away. They stretch the metal - leave hammer marks all over and then start trying to shrink it when they should have just left it alone! LOL

If you "pull" this area out with a stud gun - you'll then most likely end up with an oil can.

Ever heard of Bondo? Works real well on low areas... don't be afraid to use it. Personally - I'd prefer a low area over a proud one.

Not sure what the right answer is on the "can't get there to work the area"... I'm all for "do my best and skim coat it".

My first job ever was at Gateway Body and Fender... back when we brazed panels on. And we did lead work. My boss was always trying to teach me his art... and a "dent" in his mind was not a dent -- it was stretched metal. His job was to "shrink" the stretched metal back to it's original shape. He'd pick up a dolly and hammer and you could actually watch the metal coming back to the original panel shape in an area he wasn't even hammering on! He's hammering here and the metal over there was coming into shape. He did this with very little effort and just the feel of constantly using his hand on the panel. I never did pick up his gift for this. It's still a mystery to me.

[ccracin]

Comments in red below! Thanks Buddy.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I'm going to let better body men than I answer these questions -- but I would say on the area being "proud" (high) after hammer welding is because you stretched the panel too much. I know what you are saying here. I don't think that's what I have going on here. You can pick up an edge with your finger nail as you see it in the picture. When I use my flat hand the panel is flat other than that edge. You don't have to pound the weld perfectly flat to save yourself a lot of work with the grinder. 3 pounds of shizzaz in a 1 pound can. When you're fit up is really tight - you weld - you hammer flat - the metal that is hammered flat is going to GROW not shrink. Agreed. This is how I was trying to raise the low area created by the weld. It absolutely works and it doesn't take much hammering. I guess I just let the 2 panels become mis-aligned

Ever heard of a shrinking hammer? They work if you know how to use 'em.Yea,but I'm not ready for that yet!

Hammer and dolly work is a black magic art form... I've seen people take a perfectly good panel and RUIN it because they just think you pick up and hammer and start banging away. They stretch the metal - leave hammer marks all over and then start trying to shrink it when they should have just left it alone! LOLI have a pile of scrap sheet metal from trying different hammer and dolly methods. On dolly, off dolly, on thumb, etc!

If you "pull" this area out with a stud gun - you'll then most likely end up with an oil can. That's what I thought, but I know I get the low areas after welding. Light hammering raises them but when I get to the bed, I can't get a dolly behind the panel.

Ever heard of Bondo? Works real well on low areas... don't be afraid to use it. Personally - I'd prefer a low area over a proud one. Agreed, but when we are trying to live up to standards of Ironworks and Jason(WAR) you get a complex. Yah know!

Not sure what the right answer is on the "can't get there to work the area"... I'm all for "do my best and skim coat it". I'm with ya at this point.

My first job ever was at Gateway Body and Fender... back when we brazed panels on. And we did lead work. My boss was always trying to teach me his art... and a "dent" in his mind was not a dent -- it was stretched metal. His job was to "shrink" the stretched metal back to it's original shape. He'd pick up a dolly and hammer and you could actually watch the metal coming back to the original panel shape in an area he wasn't even hammering on! He's hammering here and the metal over there was coming into shape. He did this with very little effort and just the feel of constantly using his hand on the panel. I never did pick up his gift for this. It's still a mystery to me.

Let's see what the other masters have to say!