1967 Camaro for OUSCI

[Vegas69]

I'd still take the Mule for looks but I'd want to drive this one.

[GregWeld]

Hey Charley....



Next track day -- register the pile of nuts and bolts and I'll stop by and haul it to the track for you.... or I'll take the '66 and you drive/haul the pile... It would be fun to watch you mow down all those high zoot Mustangs with that old Camaro....


EEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA

[ArisESQ]

Did anyone post the wheel specs on this thing - width and offset/backspace?
(it's magnificent by the way)

Edit: Found it!
For those of you who are interested, its:
REAR - 19x12 w/ 6.75" Backspace
FRONT - 18x10 w/ 6.25" BS

[monstereddie]

Originally Posted by Stielow

I'm using a C-6 Corvette Z06 ABS module pre-2008. The trick is the factory ABS wheel speed sensors on all four corners and tricking the ABS module to think it is still in a 2007 Corvette and it still connected to all it correct sensors. If you don't get all the sensor correct it will still work but works in a default cal that has lower ABS efficiency. If you don't get the wheel speed sensors and wiring correct the ABS will fault out at very inopportune times. The wheel speed signal error is a hard fault - the system stops working. This is the problem I had 2 years ago. Not all ABS systems and control strategies are created equal. Like the old debate on EFI on if Speed Density, Alpha-N or MAF systems were better. There are different ABS control strategies. So with all that said I mean if you get a 2002 Camaro 3 channel ABS system to work it will not be as good as a C-6 Corvette system. If you just want to keep from locking a tire that is easy. If you want to optimize stopping distance on split Mu (Dry concrete and Ice) that is harder.




Note the new gun drilled (weight savings) Strange axles, revised axle end and new spacers. The steel and aluminum spacers were machined by my buddy Ken Tibor.





Because the production ZR-1 SKF bearings are active wheel sensor I had SKF make me the SKF bearing with passive wheel speed sensors to work with the 2007 Delphi ABS module.

After a lot of debate with Brembo I chose to use the GTR Calipers over the GT Calipers. We had a lot of discussions like "How much HP? We’ll need to call back to Italy and get back to you"

So I went with Brembo's recommendation. Those brakes are not for the weak of heart or wallet. Due to my short development time line I don't have time to do a lot of experimentation with the brakes.

I have worked with the Brembo guys a bunch on other projects and I think this may be a bit over kill but they will work. I did size the system to work with the Delphi ABS system. The brakes on Red Devil worked very well and I just wanted to tweak the system a little to make it better.

With a lot of due care you can get ABS to work on an old hot rod. You just need to keep it happy with the correct sensors to make it work. I want to keep my ABS set up my competitive advantage for a while. Bosch does sell an aftermarket ABS system that is laptop programmable. So it is accessible technology to anyone with the budget or time to sort it out. I look at ABS, Stability Control and Performance Traction Management as the next thing for the aftermarket to crack into. Like EFI was 25 years ago only a few people could do it and few aftermarket company’s make systems and they were expensive. Now EFI is main stream and very easy to do. So I see chassis controls going that way in a few years.

Hey if it was easy everyone would be doing it....

If I can get the car out of paint jail I can start putting it together. (Paul and Joe are doing a great job) You can’t rush this quality of a paint job.

Mark

Hello Mark,

i really would want to chat with you about your ABS solution. We can not put the Restomods on legal road without the same system we use for the Engine here in Germany so i would really ask you for help on the ABS. We have Bosch M4 Systems, but they are NOT for legal street use. I would appreciate if you could give me a chance to talk to you!! THANK YOU!

[Beach Cruiser]

Hey Mark,
I'd like to talk to you about the same subject, I have C5 sensors already on my front hubs and C4 sensors on both back wheels, From that point what else do I need other than the C5 module? I'm having issues locking my front right in particular. Is the C4 stuff the same tooth count/signal as the C5? My brakes all the way around are C5 as well as my master cylinder.
Can you help me? We talked some at Optima in Ky, and a couple of years ago when you brought the Red Devil to VIR for UTCC, You need to bring one back for that, I've won it twice since then!
Mills

[monstereddie]

I am so incredibly impressed about the fact that there is a system from the 80s and no one could really offer or figure out a universal kit! I am also impressed by the fact that Mark is the only one known who did that in a series and we hope and pray that he will help us out!

PLEASE MARK! SAY SOMETHING!!!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by monstereddie

I am so incredibly impressed about the fact that there is a system from the 80s and no one could really offer or figure out a universal kit! I am also impressed by the fact that Mark is the only one known who did that in a series and we hope and pray that he will help us out!

PLEASE MARK! SAY SOMETHING!!!

I'm going to go out over my skis here and attempt to cover for Mark.

What you're asking about -- is incredibly complicated. Even more complicated when you're putting a system like this on track. I've only ever been privy to listening to these discussions between engineers..... and there's nothing much the ordinary guy is going to understand or be able to modify etc.

If I were him - I would HAVE TO consider the legal liability of advising someone trying to build these systems. There is just so much engineering and testing involved.

[monstereddie]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I'm going to go out over my skis here and attempt to cover for Mark.

What you're asking about -- is incredibly complicated. Even more complicated when you're putting a system like this on track. I've only ever been privy to listening to these discussions between engineers..... and there's nothing much the ordinary guy is going to understand or be able to modify etc.

If I were him - I would HAVE TO consider the legal liability of advising someone trying to build these systems. There is just so much engineering and testing involved.

Thank you, Greg for this post. I am an Engineer with lots of Bosch backgrounds and abilities. We do software programming for the EURO 6 ECU, development, transmission development, manufacturing of reading and flashing hardware, checksum coding and programming of all CAN BUS controlled system. I could immediately use a M4 System that is great and works better than anything else in the world, problem is, that BOSCH sells it in Germany only for race track use, not for legal roads. I asked for Mark´s help because he integrated Delphi ABS into his cars and they work fine. Our government accepts only systems that were used in Legal Cars. With his help we could make this happen and probably help others that are in the need of the same system. I am not (at the moment) familiar with Delphi, but the codes are open source and it is a lot of information out there that can make this happen. We have own 4x4 dyno, brake system manager and testing areas, ...... all here - dont worry about the liability. Mark already told me that his system works amazing!

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by monstereddie

Thank you, Greg for this post. I am an Engineer with lots of Bosch backgrounds and abilities. We do software programming for the EURO 6 ECU, development, transmission development, manufacturing of reading and flashing hardware, checksum coding and programming of all CAN BUS controlled system. I could immediately use a M4 System that is great and works better than anything else in the world, problem is, that BOSCH sells it in Germany only for race track use, not for legal roads. I asked for Mark´s help because he integrated Delphi ABS into his cars and they work fine. Our government accepts only systems that were used in Legal Cars. With his help we could make this happen and probably help others that are in the need of the same system. I am not (at the moment) familiar with Delphi, but the codes are open source and it is a lot of information out there that can make this happen. We have own 4x4 dyno, brake system manager and testing areas, ...... all here - dont worry about the liability. Mark already told me that his system works amazing!

Well === I have no business speaking for Mark........ but it has to be said because it is complicated and can easily be made into a mess... These are public forums and we can only imagine the midnight engineering that could take place with barely enough info.

[Beach Cruiser]

Yeah, I'm an Engineer too and speak the language, I'm just trying not to reinvent the wheel. Maybe Mark is just holding a grudge because our FSAE car beat his FSAE car 27 years ago?