Older Richmond 5-Speed in My 1969 Firebird

[Ron Fox]

Originally Posted by T_Raven

It looks like you've already decided against the Richmond but I'd like to add a few things for anyone that might debate this later. And it's good general info about gear sizes.

I was looking at a 69 Firebird that had a Richmond 5 speed and 3.55 rear gears. That would make for 3500 rpms at 75 mph, definitely not acceptable. A TKO 600 with a .68 5th gear would be closer to 2500 rpms at 75, so that's much better. To turn 2500 rpm @ 75 with a 1:1 5th gear you'd need about a 2.40:1 rear gear and I don't even know where to buy anything numerically lower than 3.08, so gears would cost more and offset the savings of a Richmond 5 speed for anyone debating the two.

Richmond advertises that they made a 1:1 5 speed because it's quieter. At a 1:1 ratio you can design a trans to lock the input and output shafts rather than spinning gears to get an over drive, making less noise. I've never noticed an over drive trans to be too noisy though so that's a pointless way to do it in my eyes. To make up for no over drive they gear the whole thing lower so you can use taller rear gears and still have similar gearing overall and low cruise rpm, but like I said, where do you find 2:40:1 gears? Also having a 3.28:1 1st gear is part of what makes the Richmond weeker. To have a higher ratio the two gears need to be further apart in size making for less contact between the two, making for a weeker pair of gears. This is why the TKO 500 with it's 3.27:1 1st gear is weeker than the TKO 600 with it's 2.87:1 1st gear.

The Richmond was part of the reason I didn't buy the dude's car. I would've had to spend quite a bit to change that and a few other things and he wouldn't come down on price enough.

Thanks T for your info. How far along are you on your '67 Bird? Did you ever use the T56? If so how do you like it?

Are you still in Iraq or are you finally home?

[Ron Fox]

Thanks Greg and Andrew. It's good to see a healthy debate over Transmissions and it opens up my eyes to what's out there.

Hopefully more chime in to this debate.

Thanks.

[Ron Fox]

Are there any representatives from TREMEC or Richmond on this site?

Thanks.

[T_Raven]

Originally Posted by Ron Fox

Thanks T for your info. How far along are you on your '67 Bird? Did you ever use the T56? If so how do you like it?

Are you still in Iraq or are you finally home?

I'm still in Iraq, hopefully I'll be done within the next year.

I'm not too far with the car, mostly just gathering parts. I have everthing to put the t56 in but haven't done it yet. I have been satisfied with the t56 cars I've driven though. My 01 shifts hard but with 160k miles I think a new clutch would solve that. A TKO would probably be an easier install, but I got my t56 cheap and I'm pretty tall so I like that the t56 puts the shifter farther back. I won't be using a factory console anyway.

Good luck with the build. I think this has made for a good thread for anyone debating this in the future.

[Ron Fox]

Originally Posted by T_Raven

I'm still in Iraq, hopefully I'll be done within the next year.

I'm not too far with the car, mostly just gathering parts. I have everthing to put the t56 in but haven't done it yet. I have been satisfied with the t56 cars I've driven though. My 01 shifts hard but with 160k miles I think a new clutch would solve that. A TKO would probably be an easier install, but I got my t56 cheap and I'm pretty tall so I like that the t56 puts the shifter farther back. I won't be using a factory console anyway.

Good luck with the build. I think this has made for a good thread for anyone debating this in the future.

I have not done all my homework about the TKO 500 & 600 but do both of these fit into the '69 Firebird (with a console) without any problems?

Thanks for your service!!

[T_Raven]

Originally Posted by Ron Fox

I have not done all my homework about the TKO 500 & 600 but do both of these fit into the '69 Firebird (with a console) without any problems?

Thanks for your service!!

Yeah with the different shifter placements you can get the shifter in the right spot. I just saw on p-t.com that Mcleod will be releasing their new M800 5 speed that is designed to fit w/o mods to floors and such. It won't be available until March but it looks pretty sweet. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62594

[Ron Fox]

Originally Posted by T_Raven

Yeah with the different shifter placements you can get the shifter in the right spot. I just saw on p-t.com that Mcleod will be releasing their new M800 5 speed that is designed to fit w/o mods to floors and such. It won't be available until March but it looks pretty sweet. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62594

I do not know anything about the Mcleod trans. (and just learning about the other trans as you can tell lol)

Do you know anything about the Mcleod's?

Thanks.

[T_Raven]

I only found out about it today in that thread. It was just debuted at sema. I guess it's rated at 800 ft lbs, is physically smaller than other over drives, and should cost around $2300 from what Frank at Prodigy Customs said. The Mcleod guy said they won't be out till march though.

[Ron Fox]

Originally Posted by T_Raven

I only found out about it today in that thread. It was just debuted at sema. I guess it's rated at 800 ft lbs, is physically smaller than other over drives, and should cost around $2300 from what Frank at Prodigy Customs said. The Mcleod guy said they won't be out till march though.

I like the torque rating and the smaller size. If Frank is using them then it should be a good product.

[Ron Fox]

Would everyone please tell me what transmission you are running, your car's hp and torque rating, your 1st gear ratio, what rear gear you have, and what your 5th gear rpm is. I am just curious on everyone's response.

Thanks for the help.