Is there a better way to execute car projects

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Blake Foster

I would have to agree, when a shop quotes a 1/4 panel install it is what 32hrs??? depending, I think the depending part is the KEY, how is the shop to be responsible for an ill fitting 1/4?? maybe the car doesn't fit the 1/4??

Heres an example we are working with right now.

69 Camaro customer wanted all the glass changed, wanted it tinted, cool before installing the glass we had them tinted (this makes sense ) you get a better quality tint job right??? install the windows, begin aligning, goes ok they are a bastard to get right.....right???
customer picks up car on a trailer, drives it a week later and washes it there is a leak on the pass side door window. brings it back, start realigning it. hummm, take the window out lay it on a FACTORY side glass, the replacement is Bowed in the upper rear corner by 3/8 of an inch. call customer to get another side glass no problem, shows up EXACTLY the same, call customer he calls supplier, supplier doesn't know what to do sends another glass from a different manufacture......... still waiting to get the window.
so who covers all that time???
I am interested to hear.

I worked in a hot rod shop for 7 years and a dealership for 11 and I have learned that no matter how much you test, something will always show up. Both shops has us water and air test for leaks. G-F Auto, we took it to the car wash on the corner after doing an air test at the shop. Dealership was air and water test with a shower head on a stand. Worst thing is a customer to discover a problem.

Unfortunately that would be on my me if I did the install.

Im not baggin on you Blake, I don't know what steps you took before the car left. Just my experience. I have found that most aftermarket glass fits like poop. I believe Prodigy found this out a few years back.
As a caveat, we always match new parts to the replacement before it goes in. That way if you do find an issue you can contact the supplier and find a better piece. And also communicate with the customer about delays.
But I hear you. It happens. Another reason why I like to supply the parts on a job. If there's an issue, its easier and faster for me to fix it. Customer supplied parts will always have some sort of issue and I communicate that with them before the order gets drawn.

Here's one we had last year.

A customer who tracks his car lunched his engine. We needed a replacement. We gave him a quote parts and labor. It was a bit high so he found a place on line that had rebuilt 383's and dyno sheets with 500 HP.
He ordered the engine and had it shipped here.
Going over it we found a few loose bolts. No problem. Let the customer know and we didn't charge him.
We installed the engine and ran it in, no problem. After running 300 miles, he took it to Thunderhill for a track day. Called complaining of an oil leak. No problem, his sessions were done and the leak wasn't too bad.
Towed it to the shop and we found that the two piece timing cover installed by the builder was not sealed properly. It was put on dry. We called the builder and they wanted us to pull the engine and send it back for inspection. Also they would only pay for shipping, the repair and not the cost or R&I. We then prodded on why it didn't show up after two dyno run and our 300 mile break in. Beyond me.
So with a little back and forth we agreed that the builder would pay me half the cost to reseal the cover, the parts required replace the water pump gaskets and front crank seal.
We ate 50% of the cost which was around $175 but the customer was surprised and happy that we "took care" of it. Two days later I get a $300 gift certificate dinner for two.

He is now a great customer that trusts me and he'll tell a few friends, so in the end it was worth it but you still have to cover your ass-ets.

[Blake Foster]

Originally Posted by XLexusTech

IMHO they are responsible for the output which needs to account for +- X% variance from the estimate based on experience..... Again using the lumber example... if you hired a GC to build you a home... they showed up with 2X material cost because the lumber they bought was 50% rotted you would tell them to pound sand...



Again.. you own the output... personally I would treat customer supplied materials like cancer.... and if you HAVE to accept them... then the customer needs to own any time spent making parts they supplied work..

That is an interesting analogy. I just built a new house. hired a contractor had an Estimate and I was on the construction loan so I had to approve all the invoices. well had a quote for al the lumber when it was said and done the final cost was double. had the contractor check the quote to invoice and the quantities were all good, the supplier just said to bad that the price went up . so suck it up. not like you can return it!! and that was the end of it contractor didn't do anything and neither did the supplier. the funny part.... the price on the trusses never changed and I bet there was as much material in them as the rest.

I agree 100% I tell customers you supply the parts your on the hook for them no warranty you pay all the labor it takes to make them work. like the issue I talked about, so the guy saved 40 bucks on the glass. he is now into 2 replacements and time to figure it out. it is NOT my problem at that point. I like Vince bend for customers as well and sometimes it pays off and some times you just end up bending forward for no good reason.

Like I said earlier this is abut the only business where you have to make deals after the fact.

[Boss 5.0]

Originally Posted by Ron Sutton

I owned a race car chassis building shop & starved for a couple years until a mentor taught me the "business of business" ... and I made my shop profitable & smooth running. But it is no small task. I am sure there are ProTouring shops that do a great job at both ... making money & keeping employees. But it is very challenging in any business ... and even harder if the market pays less for higher grade work.

As a technical rep for a very large jobber in the north east I have almost 200 collision/ restoration shops to deal with regularly. It is amazing to me how many are owned by guys that can fix a dent or paint a car with high quality, but have no idea how to really run a business.

Body shop owners typically fall into one of two categories. the first, and smallest group is the guys that are business minded and "get it". These are the guys that are very forward thinking. New products, great equipment etc etc....

The second and much larger group are the guys that worked in a body shop making their hourly wage. They saw the boss making money, owning a nice house. Maybe had a boat and a snow mobile etc. So they decide, well if he can do it so can I. So they rent a building and have business cards made up. Bang, they are in business. What they didn't ever consider is that their old boss had more of a business mind. These are the guys that are getting by, but barely. Maybe they last 20 years, but they are just squeaking by. Scrounging for every $$. The sad fact is most will fold up and go out of business within five years.


Glenn

[RCC]

wow what a great thread I'm only on page 5 but had to jump ahead and make a comment Greg weld- Iron works-Ron Sutton some great stuff ya'll are spewing

[Cyclone03]

A friend decided his "retirement" job was going to be building hot rods and street machines. He wanted me to be the mechanic/fabricator because he is more of a bolt on type.
He rented a shop, he needed a shop type space anyway to house his car stuff. I made sure the storage was well separated from the work areas.
Our plan was to find guys who wanted cars like ours but couldn't/didn't have the skills or time to do it themselves. Took us less than 2 weeks to find a stalled project ,not a signature car for sure. The stopping point was wiring. The owner bought into the magazine hype that it just goes in in a weekend. Over a year later he was frustrated and stuck.
The problems where many but the main one was cross breeding a harness from one supplier,engine harness from another (efi swap) AC kit not matched to wire harness. All pretty strait forward for me to figure out,because I'm wiring guy,but the customer was against the wall over it all. The customer also moved the fuse block from it's designed location and cut all the break out legs so it was just a mass of wires.

I looked the project over to build the estimate while discussing exactly what we where to do.

In the end we estimated 50 hours to correct wiring.Wire gauges.Connect EFI. Install an EFI fuel system. Connect Power steering,mount and plumb PS and Box. Connect and mount shifter (AOD swap) then test fire engine.
Time was discussed and agreed to. I work only part time as I have a real job. But it was done in less than 3 weeks . Under budget.

We also estimated everything else the car needed to be a SAFE driver. Brakes,suspension exhaust ,only another 15 hours. Thats way too much ?
2 years later the car has yet to be driven.
We then got another project,friend of the first guy, that was just a list of do this next type work ,4hours here 6 hours there he finally took the car home when he figures out we where not going to replace all the sheet metal on his Mustang for $200.

Over time we got pretty good at estimating jobs,and must came under budget to the customer.
We even got to estimate some jobs that sound like huge money but truly are not. Can You put my 70 Boss 302 back together? Yes $30,000. WHAT! still sitting..... Put my bad ass highriser in this 62 Galaxie and make it look great? Yup $2500 , you guessed it 3 years still not done.
Too be honest the Boss should have been closer to $40000 but the end result would have been a nice calling card and the Gal. easy $5000 with the complete detail on the under chassis.

OUR problem was/is I'm not in the position to be in 100% , I have a "real" job and boss needed much more $$ than I could earn 10 hours a week.

But even with me passing out flyers at every cruise in and car show in the area ,over 1000 flyers just me , we only got about 20 calls ? and 1 customer.
I have seen some of the lost customer paid for someplace else work and 2 told me they got screwed. $600 to install a 4brl on a 289? From a $300 quote. Our shop rate is $80 per hour.

Our plan at the beginning was 2 or 3 guys like me with different skill sets but we never found a 2nd or 3rd . So it's now our project work space.

[RECOVERY ROOM]

Damn good insight on here fellows