69 Camaro at Best of Show

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

If you thought you that felt like a knife to the heart, then this might hurt a little bit. It is a '65, which has been... modified. Some say "Camaroized." It is tasteful though, and still thoroughly Mustang, I swear!

Matt

You,.... own a a late model Shelby stang.. et Tu. brute

I'm gonna need therapy.

Or a six pack

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by FETorino

You,.... own a a late model Shelby stang.. et Tu. brute

I'm gonna need therapy.

Or a six pack

Oh, and my Shelby doesn't have the "S H E L B Y" lettering on the trunk either. It was that way when I bought it though, and I didn't feel like buying new lettering for it.

Come on down to the shop sometime and I'll drive you over to Stone Brewing company. It is a block down the street, and they've got all of the therapy you can drink!

Matt

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

I finally got some new parts for my engine this week. Now I'm just playing the same game as Dave, trying to round up the rest of what I need. Rupp and I had a little bit of an oversight picking out parts, and forgot that the LS7 heads needed a bigger bore than what the factory LS3 block provided. Unfortunately for my wallet, my LS7 manifold was already on the way from England when I found this out, so the whole LS3 416 kinda went out the window in favor of something big enough to fit the manifold. The engine block went off to Steve Demerjian of Race Engine Development. It is going to get the dry sleeve treatment this time around. I'm going to throw in the old 4.125" crank paired up with some new 4.155" pistons for something in range of 447ish cubes. This displacement coupled with a set of LS7 heads, (which I have yet to pick out, but am considering buying GM ones and sending them off to Richard at WCCH) should really take advantage of the Jenvey manifold.

So, if anyone is looking for a Jeff Davis Precision Metal Craft manifold and some Trick Flow 235 heads, Have I got a deal for you





Matt

what are the throttle bore sizes on that manifold?

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by camcojb

what are the throttle bore sizes on that manifold?

Jody, I believe they're 52mm. I have a feeling setting this up is going to be "fun." Have you ever worked with a similar setup?

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Matt.A

Jody, I believe they're 52mm. I have a feeling setting this up is going to be "fun." Have you ever worked with a similar setup?

I have run IR setups. Never owned the crossram version though, but I have done tuning on them. My only concern is that the butterflies may be too small if this is a high HP setup, if they are truly 52 mm. It would really depend on what these throttle bodies flow. I had 2 3/16" throttle blades on a 406 small block (55.5 mm) and they were too small for the combo. Made 480 rwhp but was also pulling vacuum at WOT due to the restriction.

Has he said what these flow? The Hilborn setup was only good for 285 cfm according to them in the 55mm size. Maybe these flow more. You'd like them to flow as good as your heads or better, but at least close. You'll love the setup, torque and throttle response are incredible. Plus the looks..........

[FETorino]

Originally Posted by camcojb

I have run IR setups. Never owned the crossram version though, but I have done tuning on them. My only concern is that the butterflies may be too small if this is a high HP setup, if they are truly 52 mm. It would really depend on what these throttle bodies flow. I had 2 3/16" throttle blades on a 406 small block (55.5 mm) and they were too small for the combo. Made 480 rwhp but was also pulling vacuum at WOT due to the restriction.

Has he said what these flow? The Hilborn setup was only good for 285 cfm according to them in the 55mm size. Maybe these flow more. You'd like them to flow as good as your heads or better, but at least close. You'll love the setup, torque and throttle response are incredible. Plus the looks..........

Second that thought on proper sizing of bores.

A certified FE engine nut wrote a book where he ran ever FE intake manifold he could find on 4 FE builds. From a 320hp 428 cj to a 500hp 390 stroker to a 427 and then a stroked 700hp 482. On the three smaller motors the weber intake with 48IDAs made the best average hp and torque by a significant margin. It did not make the highest peak hp on any engine and as the peak hp climbed on each "bigger" engine the ranking of the IR webber set up fell lower on the scale.. As Jody said it was pulling to much vac at WOT showing the flow was limited. The highest peak hp of these motors was a little over 600.

Once on the 700+ hp 482 it's peak performance fell to the bottom three of 30 manifolds and it's avg score also fell in the bottom 20%.

On the webber FE intake manifold the runner was a short straight run into the port so mainly the flow of the bore was what influenced performance.

On your IR crossram the IR length and flow should have a tuning effect for desired RPM range. I only know enough to be dangerous here but if you look at some articles by the top sheet metal intake builders you see they tune the intake with the runner size and length to the motor. We can speculate all we want but the intake designer should have an intended operating RPM range for a given amount of intake flow and engine displacement and be able to tell you if it will make your motor a star or hold it back.

Originally Posted by Matt.A

Oh, and my Shelby doesn't have the "S H E L B Y" lettering on the trunk either. It was that way when I bought it though, and I didn't feel like buying new lettering for it.

Come on down to the shop sometime and I'll drive you over to Stone Brewing company. It is a block down the street, and they've got all of the therapy you can drink!

Matt

I'd take the S H E L B Y lettering off anyway. By 1969 he was already out of building Mustangs and only badging them for profit.

Better watch out what you offer I'll take you up on it. I'm off work ext week running car building errands. As long as the drive over isn't in an LS powered 65. If I win the lottery I'll buy you a Fordstrokers Dart block FI 363 and pay you to throw the LS in a Nova.

Originally Posted by Matt.A

So true. By the time your engine is fully plummed and ready to fire it will probably cost more than my three engines combined. That idea kind of scares me since I'm eventually going to have to buy an engine for my little fastback. Do you think if I put a Jenvey intake on my little LS (the one pictured) and had some billet valve covers cut to look like old Ford ones that anyone would notice it was actually an LS?

Matt

Probably not all three engines (I'm not building a cammer) but for sure probably more than your most expensive one. I did spend a couple years collecting some of the big parts at a discount.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by FETorino

Better watch out what you offer I'll take you up on it. I'm off work ext week running car building errands. As long as the drive over isn't in an LS powered 65. If I win the lottery I'll buy you a Fordstrokers Dart block FI 363 and pay you to throw the LS in a Nova.





Probably not all three engines (I'm not building a cammer) but for sure probably more than your most expensive one. I did spend a couple years collecting some of the big parts at a discount.

You're in luck, if you decide to stop by, the only thing I currently have running at the moment is the GT500. I often joke with Brett H who makes it out to a bunch of the So Cal pro touring events that Mustangs make great back up cars. His Fox Body frequently fills in for his Trans Am.

Jody, I will have to check the sizing when I get a chance. I think Jenvey's website said 52mm, but Mack at Emerald Performance, their U.S. distributer, might have said 60mm. The throttle body's certainly look more like the 60mm ones pictures. There is a thread somewhere on ls1tech of a 468LS build. As long as I have what that guy has, I should be ok. In any case, Mack seemed to thing everything would work right up until I told him I was dropping the engine into an old Camaro, at which point he told me that I was probably going to kill myself.

[Rick D]

Wow Matt that manifold is freckling awesome!! So much for simple

[tones2SS]

Man, that looks sick. Very nice piece.

[Swain]

Cool set up Matt