3 point belt systems - Lateral-g Forums

**Sieg** · #1 01-20-2013, 09:12 PM

I'm considering one of these harness systems and looking for input. No cage in the car at this time, most likely a Tiger Cage in the future. In the interim I need better upper body restraint and these appear to be the best options and will work with my lower-end Recarro seats with detachable headrests utilizing the inboard rear seat belt mounts.

I'm leaning toward the Sparco's as they would utilize the current Simpson belt mount eyelets.

Thanks

chr2002ca · #2 01-23-2013, 11:52 AM

I just recently bought a set of Sparco's and like the quality, but I was a little disappointed when I called them to find out about replacement straps and was told they don't sell individual straps. So if you want to simply replace one of the harnesses in your system(ripped, scuffed, faded, cut, burned, try a different size, whatever), you have to buy the entire kit over again. That's kinda rediculous if you ask me. Not sure if Schroth sells individual belts, but it might be something to consider as an 'advantage' if they do.

**Sieg** · #3 01-23-2013, 04:35 PM

Thanks Chris.

With the 3-point design and cost I can understand why replacement harness parts aren't available though tail-straps are.

These belts are a bandaid to insure me from Murphy's Law until I get a cage in the car.

**John510** · #4 01-27-2013, 12:48 PM

I am looking for harnesses also. The Sparco seems to be about half the price so maybe I will get those ones.

**Sieg** · #5 02-02-2013, 01:41 PM

John - I think the price difference is due to the Schroth belts being DOT approved where Sparco is not. I've been looking at a lot of options, actually too many. I don't have a cage yet so "correct" mounting options are limited. I'm leaning to the Schroth even though the price is higher because they appear to have a better buckle for adjusting and the ASM system to prevent submarining, not because of DOT. Also the offer a more tuning belt shoulder harness mount options than Sparco.

In my car with the older Recaro seats I can run the shoulder harness through the head rests since the mount rods are space 9.5" apart and Schroth's stated minimum is 4.5". The problem is a suitable rear anchor point. Using string and an angle finder the line from the headrest to rear seat belt mounts is 48-50* from level ground. Stated minimum is 45* but that is far from desirable if you look at racing harness regulations which are roughly 10* +/- from the shoulder level. The other issue with the rear belt mounts is they don't allow a straight line from the mount to the seat back due to interfence from the bottom of the seat back. To get straight-line pull the seat back would need to be slotted.

Using a single tail strap off the harness and utilizing the factoring shoulder belt mount isn't a good angle in the Camaro either IMO. Using the rear passenger shoulder mount location on the package tray next to the speaker opening appears very weak (even if a backing plate is used) for a single mount if subjected to a major frontal impact. That's why I'm leaning towards the Schroth Rallye 4 and using two reinforced mount points in the package tray. The rear seat back is about 1.25-1.5" higher than the package shelf which means ideally the mount surface should be at least 1" higher than the package shelf. The quick way might be bolt or weld in a piece of 1x2 tubing behind the seat back and anchor to that.

All these factors make a Tiger Cage tempting.......with the exception of cost in my current situation!

Package tray

The seat centerline is very close to the center of the speaker opening. The factory rear shoulder belt mount is at 7:30 1" from the speaker opening.

Rallye 4

Rallye 3 for comparison:

**parsonsj** · #6 02-02-2013, 08:11 PM

Just remember that Schroth manufactures Sparco belts. They are the same thing with a different insignia, and is why Sparco won't sell individual belts.

**Sieg** · #7 02-02-2013, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsonsj

Just remember that Schroth manufactures Sparco belts. They are the same thing with a different insignia, and is why Sparco won't sell individual belts.

Thanks I did not know that. It still appears that Schroth uses an upgraded buckle, correct? It also explains the DOT and non-DOT cert. as their bases are covered.

**RussMurco** · #8 02-16-2013, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg

Thanks I did not know that. It still appears that Schroth uses an upgraded buckle, correct? It also explains the DOT and non-DOT cert. as their bases are covered.

I had the Schroths with the inertia-reel on my last car and found them to be very comfortable when just cruising and with the Recaro "Sport" seats they fit very well. What makes them "DOT legal" was the OEM-style buckle (and going through the certfication process). They'll be on my new Firebird as well!

CarlC · #9 02-16-2013, 02:04 PM

Something else to consider is that the systems you are considering have the potential to cause you to submarine under the lap belt during a crash. The shoulder harnessses can pull the lap belt up when under tension.

A good retractable 3-point like the Morris Classic Concept is the best bet since it mimics the OE-style pass-through buckle that creates tension in the lap belt during a crash. When going beyond that, to a 5 or 6-point setup, a submarine belt is needed and installed per the manufacturers specifications.

Yeah, I know, it's a pain. I just finished reworking mine since the sub belt was not correct. Think Schroth 6-point mounted in the Formula arrangement. I'll post up info in the Honor Flight thread soon.

**Sieg** · #10 02-17-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlC

Something else to consider is that the systems you are considering have the potential to cause you to submarine under the lap belt during a crash. The shoulder harnessses can pull the lap belt up when under tension.

A good retractable 3-point like the Morris Classic Concept is the best bet since it mimics the OE-style pass-through buckle that creates tension in the lap belt during a crash. When going beyond that, to a 5 or 6-point setup, a submarine belt is needed and installed per the manufacturers specifications.

Yeah, I know, it's a pain. I just finished reworking mine since the sub belt was not correct. Think Schroth 6-point mounted in the Formula arrangement. I'll post up info in the Honor Flight thread soon.

Carl - Thanks for your input.

These are the "casual" belts I was considering: https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/seatb...n-retractable/

I made these mounts for the shoulder belt to bolt in to:

Is going with the non-retracting style a mistake? My thought was I could snug them up when desired and reaching inward or to the glove box should still be an option.

Regarding submarining, the Schroth ASM system made sense though I have no first hand experience or desire to test.

Quote:

ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt. In a 4 point harness made by some other company, the two shoulder straps restrain your upper body equally. They keep your chest from moving forward. However, this also pulls up on the lap belt and allows your accellerating pelvis to slide under the lap belt and cause serious damage to your stomach and intestines. With ASM, one of the shoulder belts will elongate at a different rate which will force your pelvis down into the seat cushion. Upon rebound, you will be placed back in an upright position with the belt correctly placed over your body.