B-body spindle caliper options

[usc2001gc]

I'm in the process of building a 71 chevelle with Global West Upper control arms, B-body spindles, 1LE rotors for the front and 93-97 camaro Rear Discs. My question is, what's the best caliper (for the front) that I can use with these parts? (I've already purchased the above parts.) I found a couple of different calipers offered by Howe Racing Enterprises at the following link: http://www.howeracing.com/Braking/In...ers-Piston.htm Has anyone tried any of these, or is there something better out on the market. The Howe calipers can be purchased through Summit Racing at a pretty good price.

[sinned]

I wish you would have asked this before wasting the money on B spindles. If you are really set on running them I would look into the C5 brake swap.

[usc2001gc]

I purchased all of the parts over a year ago, before I even heard about C5 conversions. I need to stick with the 12" rotors for now, because I'm initially going to be running the 15" SS wheels until I make up my mind on a different wheel. I'm strongly leaning toward 17" Torque Thrusts (I know everyone has them, but I love the way they look on a Chevelle.)

I guess I should have done a little better research before making a big purchase. I've heard positives and negatives on the B-Spindle conversion.

[Q-ship]

I guess my opinion would be to stick with rebuilt GM calipers for the current set up, take the money that you save and start collecting parts for a C5 conversion. The Howe calipers will not give you as much improvement as the C5 deal, and if you are planning on 17's eventually then there is no reason to limit yourself. Good brake pads for the 1LE setup would be a better investment than the Howe calipers. Just my .02.

[sinned]

Originally Posted by usc2001gc

I guess I should have done a little better research before making a big purchase. I've heard positives and negatives on the B-Spindle conversion.

Just for archive purposes there is no positive to the B swap other than raising the upper ball joint and there a dozen alternatives to the tall spindle.

I agree to leave the stock calipers until you have the wheels nesessary for a big brake conversion. It would be a waste of resources to invest in the Howe or other brands of caliper to install for a brake inprovement.

[T Bell]

so let me get this straight the B-body spindle swap doesn't provide better handling? Everything I have read says it does. I'm gonna need more info on this one.

[sinned]

NO, the B swap is a huge waste of effort an money. Search chevelles.com or Pro-touring .com for details. Try either tall spindle or B spindle for search topics. If you don't find what you need let me know and I'll provide the full text of why they don't work.

[T Bell]

I've been reading alot on PT.com but I would still like to see your "full text of why they don't work". I also noticed Marcus with SC & C says to get tubular UCA because of alignment problems.

[sinned]

The truth about the "tall spindle swap". To truly understand the tall spindle swap we first need to understand why we do it. In stock configuration on the 1st gen Camaro and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen "A" bodies the upper control arm runs from the cross shaft (or pivot) down to the upper ball joint. When the suspension goes into a bump condition (as the outside tire does during cornering) the suspension compresses and the upper control arm pivot point moves down. If you visualize what is going on you quickly realize that the upper arm is effectively increasing in length and moves the upper ball joint pivot point away from the centerline of the vehicle which increases camber. Since optimum handling occurs when the all of the tires tread is in contact with the ground, cambering positive away from the centerline significantly hurts this process.

Adding the tall spindles helps this phenomenon by placing the upper ball joint higher or equal to the upper arm pivot point. By doing this the arm becomes shorter during bump and decreases camber or pulls the camber negative and flattens out the tire contact patch with the pavement. Sounds great, what could go wrong?

Adding the tall spindles also changes a few other suspension geometry factors by design. The steering arm is relocated up and forward by quite a bit. This relocation changes the steering linkage geometry so drastically that it actually affects the steering ratio, bump steer, and turning circle. Turns that used to require minimal input from the steering wheel now will require actual movement of the hand placement on the wheel. U-turns become a thing of the past and counter steering is now a real chore, this is assuming you are using a smaller/sportier steering wheel. With the stock bus style wheel forget about any sort of control at all.

Bump steer is the least annoying but most dangerous of the side affects. Although you won't experience it everyday while putting around town, when you do have to deal with it you won't like it. Bump steer is when the length of the tie rods change throughout the wheel travel changing the toe-in/toe-out. The tall spindle swap typically results in about 3/8" of toe change throughout the wheel motion. This may not seem like a lot but going from 1/8" in to 1/4" out will definitely get your attention at freeway speeds

What is the point of all this? The point is that there are many alternatives that do not have the negative side affects. There are many other spindles available that do not change the steering geometry. There also some extended length ball joints and ball joint spacers that will effectively increase the length of the spindle.

I should point out that there are some out there marketing kits to "fix" bump steer in the tall spindle swap applications. This is not possible, there is nothing you can buy/do/make to change the steering arm on a cast spindle (safely). Do not get suckered in to buying the bump steer adjuster kits.