Wheel Balance issue solution

[GregWeld]

10 Ways to Prevent & Resolve Tire & Rim Slippage Problems

September 21, 2009
Wheel slippage has long been a point of concern in the tire industry, usually with high-output engines and high-torque applications, primarily on farm equipment and commercial trucks.

For the most part, these tire/wheel slip situations caused little more than brief consternation and had minimal impact on tire or vehicle performance. Generally, they occurred after a new tire was mounted, and the cause could be traced to overaggressive bead and rim lubrication, poor mounting techniques, bead area damage or wheel-related problems.
Occasionally, wheel slippage would be considerable and lead to tire or vehicle damage. But, in most cases, the tire would settle in place quickly and there would not be any long-term performance problems. But now one tire maker says that wheel slippage is a “major cause” of passenger vehicle ride discomfort and vibration complaints by performance tire customers. The tire maker discovered that in almost every case, “excessive use of lubricant on the tire beads and rim” was the cause of the tire/wheel slip.

In most cases, technicians discovered paste-type lubricants were used, but were liberally applied to the bead area and on the bead seat and rim flange areas of the wheel–far too much paste in far too many places, the engineers concluded.

Cause and Effect
In these days of lighter front-wheel-drive sport performance applications, high torque caused by aggressive acceleration and/or braking makes these vehicles susceptible to tire/wheel slip.

Today’s suspension and steering systems, made lighter but stronger by carmakers in an effort to increase CAFE mileage and overall performance, are far more sensitive to tire/wheel-caused vibration. Match-mounting and careful high-speed balancing are the most popular ways shops have to combat tire/wheel-related ride complaints.

But when wheel slippage is so severe, three inches or more, technicians found that previous match-mounting and balance efforts were for naught. In an experiment, technicians mounted a variety of new tires on OE and aftermarket wheels. They used a common paste lubricant liberally on both the tire beads and bead seat areas of the wheel, mimicking the process used by some of the affected dealers. The tires were then indexed to their wheels with a crayon mark on the tires by the valve stems. The tire/wheel assemblies were then balanced using a Hunter GSP9700.

After waiting 30 minutes to an hour, each set of tires was driven using three different driving styles – mild/slow acceleration and braking, aggressive acceleration, and aggressive braking to evaluate the impact of each.
In every case, regardless of tire brand or driving mode, the tires slipped considerably on both the OE and custom wheels. Post-test checks showed that every slippage case also resulted in the tire/wheel assembly becoming out-of-balance. And checks with other tire dealers confirmed slippage-related balance problems.

Combating the Problem
So, what’s a shop to do? The obvious answer is to not use so much bead lube. But here are 10 suggestions and other precautions to help prevent vibration complaints cause by tire/wheel slip.


1. Match-mount tires and wheels, as necessary. Be sure to follow the specific match-mounting instructions provided by the manufacturer.

2. Carefully clean the beads of new tires to remove any manufacturing-related lubricant residue. Use an approved rubber cleaner commonly used in tire repair.

3. Also, clean the bead seat area of the wheels. On older wheels, make sure the rim flange and bead seat areas are free of rust or dirt. Wash the area with soap and water, and dry completely.

4. Instead of using a brush, use a smaller sponge to apply paste-type bead lubricant. Apply the lubricant only to the bead sole and the inboard safety hump. Keep both rim flanges clean and dry; the lubricant on the bead sole will be more than adequate to get the bead over the flange.

5. European-produced wheels may have tighter bead seat tolerances than domestically produced wheels. Be aware that higher inflation pressures may be necessary to seat the beads of low profile performance tires on these wheels.

6. Make sure to match up any tire maker sidewall indicator marks to the valve stem hole on the wheel.

7. If more than 40 psi is required to seat the tire beads, demount the tire, re-lubricate and the remount the tire.

8. Index the tire to the wheel using a chalk or crayon mark on the sidewall above the valve stem. This will allow you to confirm any tire/wheel slip should the customer return with a vibration complaint.

9. Carefully balance each tire/wheel assembly, using the balancer manufacturer’s instructions.

10. Should a customer vibration complaint still arise, even without any apparent tire slip, remove any wheel weights and balance the assembly. If the match-mounting mark has shifted, deflate the tire and rematch the mark to the valve stem. Do not dismount, unless there is a need to match-mount.

[camaro2nv]

Good info, skip it all and use a Road force machine! Say goodbye to any problems!

[NOT A TA]

Thanks for posting this Greg.

I recently had a tire go bad on track at Sebring late in the day on a Saturday and bought 2 new front tires at a local tire shop on a Sunday morning. Not the tires I would have bought by choice but early on a Sunday morning to find any kind of high performance tires in a 275 40 17 was lucky. They were fine all day, trailered the car home and put it in the garage.

I then put some new racing brake pads on the car, bedded them on the local streets and then a few days later drove the car about an hour to the Palm Beach International track. The brake pads worked very well! Much better than any I've tried so far. I kept going deeper and deeper at the end of the straights before hitting the brakes and hitting the brakes harder and harder.

About half way through the day thought I sensed a very slight vibration in the front only at the highest speed section of the track where I was hitting about 110 MPH. Checked everything over in the pits and everything seemed tight and fine. Then during the last hot lap of my last session I hit a little higher speed there and decided there was a small vibration from something for sure. Checked everything in the pits again with nothing out of the ordinary. Then had an uneventfull ride home at highway speeds with no vibration.

I figured I'd double check everything in the front and have the balancing of the front tires checked this week before I run up at Sebring again next weekend.

Now I read this! I've had drag cars with tire screws in the slicks but never really considered braking hard enough to cause tire slip on the wheel. That may very well have been what happened to my car. I'll bet the local tire shop figured they'd lube up my wheels and the new tires "really good" so they wouldn't mark up my wheels. Then with the much higher braking force of the new pads and practicing trail braking into turn 1, one (or both) tires may have slipped just a little bit on the rim.

After I get the tires rebalanced (if they need it) I'm going to mark all the tires before I run the car at Sebring and see if any of them move.

[GregWeld]

Interesting huh John!!

I'd never ever given any thought to the tire moving on the rim... except as you said - in drag racing and then only the slicks!

Big 4 X 4's have "rim lock" wheels.... They run low air pressures... so I could see where they might spin a tire like this... but sure never thought about it on "high performance" tires like we use.

Thought I'd post it up - and let people read it or not. I claim no merit on the article - only that it seemed to be informative and something to "think" about.

Will be interesting to see if you mark the tire/wheel if they "move" at all...

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by camaro2nv

Good info, skip it all and use a Road force machine! Say goodbye to any problems!

I've used the road force 'balance' system and have found "out of round" tires etc --- but that machine wouldn't keep the tires seated on the rims --- because you've already mounted the tire up. And that is where the problem is - the use of mounting soaps etc.... and then going out and hammering the combo.

[camaro2nv]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

I've used the road force 'balance' system and have found "out of round" tires etc --- but that machine wouldn't keep the tires seated on the rims --- because you've already mounted the tire up. And that is where the problem is - the use of mounting soaps etc.... and then going out and hammering the combo.

I ran a wheel shop with this machine. The drum will come down and seat the bead on the rim. It will say "seating bead" on the screen. Once that is done it will stop the rim and spin it the other direction still on the drum. We did a LOT of high end cars and never once had a problem. Its really the best money can buy!

[GregWeld]

This was EXACTLY the machine quoted in the info I posted.

Nice machine.

[NOT A TA]

Well I just had the new front tires I'd posted about checked. One of the tires appeared to be bad. It was out of round like a clown bike wheel. However dismounting and remounting the tire seemed to cure the problem. Apparently the tire had indeed shifted on the rim and was no longer concentric. Even a novice would have noticed it so when the first place mounted and balanced the tire it couldn't have been like that. (and it would have shaken the tire machine)

The other tire was also off balance but not by a lot. They only changed one weight. I should have looked more closely at the machine they used today but it looked very similar to the one shown in the previous post.

I'm going to run Sebring this weekend. I'm headed out to the garage now to put the wheels back on the car and I'm going to mark all of them. I'll post up my findings next week.

[GregWeld]

You know John -- I posted this up == thinking that it "may" have some interest. There's a lot of people on this site with big HP/TQ and big ol fat tires... so I thought - "WHY NOT!" and if it helps one person - then it was worth the small effort...

Can't tell you how many times I'd have tires mounted and balanced - and it seemed they'd go out of balance within a day or two... now I think I might have a fighting change of understanding why!

Good luck at the track!

[NOT A TA]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

You know John -- I posted this up == thinking that it "may" have some interest. There's a lot of people on this site with big HP/TQ and big ol fat tires... so I thought - "WHY NOT!" and if it helps one person - then it was worth the small effort...

Can't tell you how many times I'd have tires mounted and balanced - and it seemed they'd go out of balance within a day or two... now I think I might have a fighting change of understanding why!

Good luck at the track!

I only WISH my car was a big power car! The reality is that it's more of what track guys would refer to as a momentum car, kind of like an oversized Miata! LOL

I'm sure some of the cars I ve seen here with big power and/or killer brakes could rotate the tires on the rims. Mine has neither, so if it can happen to me....................

Thanks Greg!