Ford... what's going to happen?

[XcYZ]

It keeps on getting uglier and uglier at Ford. The cuts they're planning on over the next 24 months are huge.

Is the UAW killing them? Do they really have fork lift operators making over $100k a year?

I hope they can right their ship before its too late. All we need it Toyota gaining more market share.

Comments?

[MaxHarvard]

They made comments about shutting down the Town Car... so many taxi/limo companies are just gonna buy Caddy's

[Hdesign]

Maybe Renault/Nissan will buy them, they seem to be fishing for the Big 3 lately.

[Colvindesign]

Ford and GM are both in big trouble.

The problems are more than one single thing. Except if you call their way of doing business one single thing. They have been doing business the same way for years, but things around them have changed, they adapted in ways that were quick fixes that have hurt them tremendously in the long run.

Competition, 50 years ago, they competed with themselves. Today, the competition comes from every conceivable angle, and it is better and cheaper. How have they dealt with this? Rebates and advertising. Both cost them huge amounts of money, that they simply cannot afford to sustain.

Hind-sight is always twenty/twenty. So we can say they shoulda this shoulda that all day. The real question is what they should do now.

The entire business model at both companies needs to be thrown out. It just does not work anymore. Everything from conceptualization to production all the way to sales and service, needs to be rethought.

Bringing in Boeing's Mullaly, might do the trick, but I highly doubt it.

There are ways to beat the competition and profit from it. I would propose selling a major stake in the company to one of the largest finance companies in the US. Then, I would set up a program with that company to finance all vehicles at a maximum of 10% apr. THis means if you go over to Toyota, and they quote you 22% (it happens more than you think), then you can go to Ford and they will give you 10%. If you have excellent credit, you can still get 0% or whatever they decide to use. This alone could save buyers over 100 dollars a month. This is a major selling point.

Next, in line with this program, I'd develop a city/inexpensive vehicle. Plastic body panels, heat, air, a cd player and power steering/brakes, offered in clean diesel and a small displacement gas, it could best 50 mpg and cost under 10,000. The best selling cars of all time (by a huge margin) were small cheap well engineered cars. Combined with a platform that could be shared with other inexpensive vehicles up to midsize vehicles, it would provide adaptability and higher profit per unit. Teamed with low apr guarantee, it would be very affordable to those who otherwise couldn't get a car. As long as it was designed the right way, it could become the next (original) beetle. This car would also be a global vehicle and could sell as many as 1m units annually. Ford probably has most of th ecomponents in it's bin to make this happen today. This could also have parts and sub-assemblies built all over the world at different ford plants, making it even less expensive to produce.

Jaguar, Aston, and LR would all be put on the auction block, but only up to a certain percent. I would say what else I would do with them, but I don't think anyone would like it. I don't mean dismantling them either.

Next, each vehicle would have a price point. below that point and you are losing money. Above that point and you are making money. This point would not include rebates, or excessive advertising. Then each month's sales numbers would dictate the next months budget for rebates and advertising. This would also be a way to break it down and see what is costing the most, what costs too much, and where changes need to be made.

Finally, incomes and salaries from the top to the bottom, would need to be re-evaluated. Hourly wages are out of hand. My father worked for General motors, and would tell me about the old man who worked for 40 years pushing a broom. He didn't want to retire, and because of when he was hired they couldn't force him to. He made over 60 dollars an hour. There is no need for that. I'd say 10 dollars an hour is insulting to a worker on a production line, but 60 an hour is excessive. Also 6m a year for a CEO who underperforms, is excessive as well.




Sorry for throwing my 2 cents at it, but these topics really get me going. They do nothing but throw Harvard grad after Yale grad at the CEO chair and none are prepared adequately to fix things the way they should be fixed. It takes a whole new perspective, and they just don't get that. By the time they do, it will probably be too late.

[sik68]

I see it as a microcosm of how economies of countries work. Think of Japan 10 years ago, then China 2 years ago....people predict that the next big economic powerhouse is India. Yes the US is powerful, but only as a consumerl; our exports have gone down the drain.

I think every company/country has a power-cycle. I think we are getting closer to the end of it for Domestic car manufacturers. If you think about it optimistically though, it is a sign of healthy capitalism.

[trapin]

Uhh....I wouldn't say we're in "big" trouble. We were in a bit of a downward spiral but are now coming out of it. Don't lopp us in with Ford...that's an insult.

As far as they're concerned, I'm worried about my cousin George...he's been there 16 years and has so far dodged every bullet they've shot. But I wonder how much longer he can keep it up.

The problem with domestic Automakers is more gray than it is black and white. I know I have popped off numerous times on this board and others about the perception people have about our cars. Japan has launched one of the most successful PR battles in this country over the past 20 years and our media has been all too happy to oblige them. They basically can get away with whatever they want and can absolutely do nothing wrong (at least that's what the media will have you believe). Case in point...the FJ Cruiser. Why isn't Toyota getting stoned to death for this vehicle the way we have been over HHR? Just look at it. If you don't see H3 in that vehicle you are blind as a friggin bat. Why aren't they being ridiculed, ripped on, and dragged across the coals? They did it to us over HHR, comparing it to the PT Cruiser. I'll tell you why they can get away with it......BECAUSE THEY'RE TOYOTA...THAT'S WHY. They can do no wrong....they're Gods....everything they touch turns to gold. I'll ask you to (once again) take a look at the Honda Element; praised to death in all the rags as a bold, risk taking concept that for a change is a different take on the SUV. You buy this car and you’re a smart buyer that knows quality and style when he sees it. Take the Honda badge off and put on a Pontiac V crest and you can flush all that praise and adulation straight down the toilet. Our media would have ripped that car a new ass, just as they did to the Pontiac Aztek.

Well, that’s enough. I no longer have the energy to argue this tired, drawn out debate about what’s wrong with our domestic car companies. We can't dwell on that crap. We have to press forward and continue to commit ourselves to delivering "must have" products with unparalleled quality. I am completely confident that the products we have coming out in the next 2 to 3 years will make us a force in this industry once again.

[Derek69SS]

Originally Posted by trapin

I am completely confident that the products we have coming out in the next 2 to 3 years will make us a force in this industry once again.

I hope you're right about this part, because you were right-on with the rest of your post.

[Ummgawa]

Trapin is right, put a Pontiac badge on it and its all over but who to fire for the design. I have not now nor will I ever own a Japanese Automobile. I pull for the Big 3, GM in particular. Funny thing is, seems like every one wants "Throwback" cars... I feel certain that GM could build the 69 Camaro, 67 Corvette, 66 Chevelle, 55 Chevrolet ( I am listing my favorites of course) better than anyone else, modern engines and suspensions in the older bodies, lets see the press piss and moan over that. Don't think it would sell if they actually did have a "Throw back Division"? I am going to sell something significant to buy me one of those Challengers when they get built. But that's just me.

[sik68]

As trapin said, it's not black and white; however, it cannot be blamed only on the press hating the USA. For example, the press loves the new mustang and it sells great; but Ford is still doing worse than ever. The fact is there are many things that the "Big 3" have done wrong that the Japanese manufacturers have done right. Lower prices (not only the big 3's fault) and better reliability are factually provable examples.

Of course there is a lot of brand loyalty/pride among the members of these and like forums, but the rest of the country is the larger audience that the domestic manufacturers must cater to. If you want them to survive, they can't do it with the gearhead mentality...these are different times.

[Colvindesign]

Originally Posted by trapin

Uhh....I wouldn't say we're in "big" trouble. We were in a bit of a downward spiral but are now coming out of it. Don't lopp us in with Ford...that's an insult.

As far as they're concerned, I'm worried about my cousin George...he's been there 16 years and has so far dodged every bullet they've shot. But I wonder how much longer he can keep it up.

The problem with domestic Automakers is more gray than it is black and white. I know I have popped off numerous times on this board and others about the perception people have about our cars. Japan has launched one of the most successful PR battles in this country over the past 20 years and our media has been all too happy to oblige them. They basically can get away with whatever they want and can absolutely do nothing wrong (at least that's what the media will have you believe). Case in point...the FJ Cruiser. Why isn't Toyota getting stoned to death for this vehicle the way we have been over HHR? Just look at it. If you don't see H3 in that vehicle you are blind as a friggin bat. Why aren't they being ridiculed, ripped on, and dragged across the coals? They did it to us over HHR, comparing it to the PT Cruiser. I'll tell you why they can get away with it......BECAUSE THEY'RE TOYOTA...THAT'S WHY. They can do no wrong....they're Gods....everything they touch turns to gold. I'll ask you to (once again) take a look at the Honda Element; praised to death in all the rags as a bold, risk taking concept that for a change is a different take on the SUV. You buy this car and you’re a smart buyer that knows quality and style when he sees it. Take the Honda badge off and put on a Pontiac V crest and you can flush all that praise and adulation straight down the toilet. Our media would have ripped that car a new ass, just as they did to the Pontiac Aztek.

Well, that’s enough. I no longer have the energy to argue this tired, drawn out debate about what’s wrong with our domestic car companies. We can't dwell on that crap. We have to press forward and continue to commit ourselves to delivering "must have" products with unparalleled quality. I am completely confident that the products we have coming out in the next 2 to 3 years will make us a force in this industry once again.

As a designer, I can see huge differences in those vehicles you mentioned (frankly all but the PT and HHR which might as well been designed by the same person). Honestly, the Element looks just ok, the Aztec.... well just look at it.

I don't mean to spark a debate over it, but subtle differences on the same model can mean sale or no sale to a buyer. The Fj is not close to a Hummer. Yes, it is a boxy 4X4, but stylistically I'd say it is a cross between a hummer and a Jeep, in other words faithful to the original FJ.

People don't always believe the media when it comes to taste. Look at movies. Box office hits have many times been criticized heavily by critics.

All I am saying on this subject is the buyer is the one who makes the decision in the end. They can be told something is ugly, or beauitiful but if they don't agree, they don't agree.

I do put GM and Ford in the same category, because both of them have failed to adapt correctly to the changes that have faced them.

Maybe the media has treated your companies unfairly. How about how your companies reacted when the media and the buyers were telling them from the late 70's through the end of the 90's that your quality was not up to par with the Japanese? So when they were telling the companies what the problem was, there was no one listening. On the other hand, Japanese companies have not faltered in offering good reliable products. So there they have the choice of favoring a company that offers a good product, or a company that offered crap for many years and acted like it could do no wrong, and now acts like everything is falling in on them and they don't know why (while the media all along told them what the problem was). The media was not attacking your companies when it said the cars were crap, it was telling them what the problem was. Instead of fixing it, all of them acted like they were being attacked by the media for no good reason and failed to listen.

It is black and white. Adapt effectively or you don't survive. It is not grey, it is not more complicated. That is what the problem is at GM and Ford, everything is too complicated. Putting a price point on every car that rolls off the line is simple, and tells the company exactly what can and can't be done.
I understand that the price point will change with volume and production line efficiency, but that can be factored in as well. And stick to it, if you only have 1m for advertising, make it count, but don't go over.

GM and Ford have commitees and panels and bean counters up the wazoo, instead of having a clear goal and going out and meeting that goal. GM has made strides and is on the right track, but still is overcomplicated and has failed to use it's best business plans to it's advantage to make an effective company wide change, like the Solstice business model, or even the GTO business model. The entire Solstice development cost less than the changeover from 1997-1998 for the firebird and camaro, which still used most of the same components. Instead of looking at that and seeing how that could be used to develop vehicles more efficiently, they go back to the normal way of developing products, by throwing money into it. Using the Solstice way, they can develop 5 niche vehicles that can be medium volume sellers (over 25k units) and be successful, for the price they usually spend on one that may sell 100k units in it's best year.

Sorry again I don't mean to spark a debate, but I too get going over this stuff.