Camber: does this look right? (track video inside)

[chicane]

Dave - Length of time before temps were taken ??... in the future, try and get inner, center and outer temps... as it will associate to any pressure issues that may be present or help explain possible cupping issues.

The second, third or fourth run temps do show an alignment issue... and my intripretation is that you need to get the chassis scaled to verify my input. I believe that you need to read your corner weights, with you in the car, just after you do the alignment with you in the car. Basically, set the car up as you would be on the track... do an alignment and then scale it... with you and the amount of fuel (perferrably totally full or totally empty.)

Another question... which direction were you running the track and which course was set up for that day ?

The only thing that stands out to me... is the RR temps. The chassis either needs more cross weight to distribute the front loads better and to take some load off of the right rear. Its either that... or a possible bend housing or a loose differential... ie, worn clutch packs or not enough preload shim to the clutch pack.

If I could see scale numbers, as it is... before any change, that would help.

But seriously, nothing to be really alarmed with. They -look- proper... and it just needs a little nudge in adjustment.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

315's in the rear with 245's up front doesn't help but I know 275's in the rear are not an option for you.

What front and rear spring rates are you running? Adjustable shocks?

255 front and 315 rear for me. Not a bad stagger.

Front is single adj Varishocks and 650# and rear is the DSE 3" drop leafs, I think 175# with Varishocks? Running both at #8 setting currently.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by chicane

Dave - Length of time before temps were taken ??... in the future, try and get inner, center and outer temps... as it will associate to any pressure issues that may be present or help explain possible cupping issues.

The second, third or fourth run temps do show an alignment issue... and my intripretation is that you need to get the chassis scaled to verify my input. I believe that you need to read your corner weights, with you in the car, just after you do the alignment with you in the car. Basically, set the car up as you would be on the track... do an alignment and then scale it... with you and the amount of fuel (perferrably totally full or totally empty.)

Another question... which direction were you running the track and which course was set up for that day ?

The only thing that stands out to me... is the RR temps. The chassis either needs more cross weight to distribute the front loads better and to take some load off of the right rear. Its either that... or a possible bend housing or a loose differential... ie, worn clutch packs or not enough preload shim to the clutch pack.

If I could see scale numbers, as it is... before any change, that would help.

But seriously, nothing to be really alarmed with. They -look- proper... and it just needs a little nudge in adjustment.

CCW that day.

I plan to weigh the car soon (been on the list!) and will do it with me in it.

Thanks Tom.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Flash68

255 front and 315 rear for me. Not a bad stagger.

Front is single adj Varishocks and 650# and rear is the DSE 3" drop leafs, I think 175# with Varishocks? Running both at #8 setting currently.

Chicane makes some really good points. Corner weighing the car is the best starting point but access to scales could be challenging.

With stock subframe 650# spring is not bad though I prefer 700#. Stock subframes have alot of flex and actually act as part of the suspension.

Single adjustable shocks are usually set up to adjust for rebound. If you max your shock adjustment and the front of the car starts to bounce, thats when you know to back off the adjustment. I haven't run across a track yet that has induced enough grip to make my car bounce yet. Actually I correct myself. The asphalt at the 341 Challenge had so much grip I had to back off 6 clicks.

What I'm thinking is that you are transfering to much weight to the front of the car. If you lower the shock rate in the rear, when you get on the throttle coming out of a corner you will shift more weight to the rear but it is also possible that you may get to much traction in the rear from doing this and it might overwhelm the smaller front tires but at least its something to try.

I know 275's in the rear aren't an option for you so my next suggestion would be a larger rear bar. What the larger rear bar will do is keep the rear planted in the corners. For example, if you are taking a left hand corner the rear bar will plant the left side rear tire and keep from shifting weight to the front right tire.

[Vegas69]

One thing you need to remember is he's on street tires.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

One thing you need to remember is he's on street tires.

True that, but I'm starting to come to my own conclusions about the NT05's. I've joined quite a few discussions about their grip and I'm not sure the 200 tread wear is accurate. Nitto tires are made by Toyo which leads me to believe that the compounds aren't much different then the R888's.

Why is it the R888's seem to last about as long as the NT05's?

Everybody I've discussed these tires with tells me they only last about around 10,000 miles when auto crossing and street driving is combined.

[Flash68]

You really think the NT05s are in the same league as R888s? I have yet to hear or read of that. Interesting...

I have 2500 miles on mine (RTTC, 2 autoX days, and the Willow Springs day) and there is no way they are lasting 10k miles.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Flash68

You really think the NT05s are in the same league as R888s? I have yet to hear or read of that. Interesting...

I have 2500 miles on mine (RTTC, 2 autoX days, and the Willow Springs day) and there is no way they are lasting 10k miles.

Not exactly the same league but maybe not to far off. Think about it......I've read 8-10K on the NT05's and it sounds like your not even going to make it to 8K. I've also read that they heat up quick and get greasy near the end of the runs. Does that sound familiar to you? Are they stickier at the beginning of your runs? If so, they definitely have the characteristics of a soft compound tire.

Kyle Newman recently ran about 1.5 sec's faster than me at Buttonwillow 13 CW on NT05's. I was having issues with tire rub and heating up the rear tires prematurely but still, 2:08's is pretty impressive on a 200 treadwear tire.

I am tempted to do some testing pretty soon. I wonder if I could get a vendor or a member here to donate some new or used NT05's just for a test day.

Same car, same driver........NT05's versus R888's.

[Vegas69]

Kyle Newman is a hell of a wheel man with a great car. I've got a contact at Toyo but I doubt he'd tip his hat. My toyos are at the wear bars in the back and not far from it up front. About 3500 miles and a boat load of races. They could be a very similar compound but the R888 has more rubber due to the tread design. R888 has 6/32nd and the NT05 has 7.2/32nds from the factory.

[Flash68]

Originally Posted by Vegas69

Kyle Newman is a hell of a wheel man with a great car.

What he said.. I would be hesitant to give his tires too much of the credit.. he can flat out drive that full framed car. But I also think you can drive too, G.

I cannot really opine too much as I've never driven R comps of any kind on a track, only the NT05's.