Save GM

[sniper]

Originally Posted by jeff hanson

Everyone who thinks that this is a bailout of GM needs to realize that it's a loan, that in turn will bail out hundreds of thousands of people from losing there jobs. The effects of not getting this "loan" will be catastrophic.

You mean that those employees might feel what most others that are not making $40 and up an hour, feel?

Originally Posted by jeff hanson

As far as the quality goes. We ARE just as good or better than most. The days of old are gone. The sooner people realize this, the sooner we will start to get this country back on track. I honestly do not understand how any American can walk into a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. store right now. It boggles my mind how much lack of support for this country there is. The only good thing I can say about them is that they forced us to step up our game, and we did! Now we have the best warranty in the industry to prove that we can build a quality vehicle and back it up, yet people still buy imports!

OK, I'm done....BUY AMERICAN!

Originally Posted by Rhino

America has turned into a bunch of sheep.

How can you honestly sit there and blame the consumer for not buying these cars? And take no responsibility for the products they are presenting to us for purchase?

Just as an example; How long has honda been building 30+ mpg cars that don't look like the geo metro? Besides buying a foreign car is just as much buying american anymore as buying a GM.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by sniper

How can you honestly sit there and blame the consumer for not buying these cars? And take no responsibility for the products they are presenting to us for purchase?

Just as an example; How long has honda been building 30+ mpg cars that don't look like the geo metro? Besides buying a foreign car is just as much buying american anymore as buying a GM.

You obviously missed the total point of my post.

Whether or not many people notice, the US automakers have made huge strides in quality. Take a look at GM interiors within the past 2 years vs a few years prior. The quality gap between the US and foreign manufactures has been closed significantly.
My point was that the public's perception won't change until there is a huge shake up. The general public is currently blind to the increases in quality no matter what the automakers are currently doing.
While their quality has rose, their perception is still the same.

It doesn't matter how long honda's been doing it... what I'm talking about is the fact that the GM is almost on par with them and gaining fast. GM's perception in your eyes still hasn't changed even though they've remedied the situation. If you think Buying a Honda is the same as buying GM, you really need to follow the money trail to see where it ends up.

[sniper]

Originally Posted by Rhino

You obviously missed the total point of my post.

Whether or not many people notice, the US automakers have made huge strides in quality. Take a look at GM interiors within the past 2 years vs a few years prior. The quality gap between the US and foreign manufactures has been closed significantly.
My point was that the public's perception won't change until there is a huge shake up. The general public is currently blind to the increases in quality no matter what the automakers are currently doing.
While their quality has rose, their perception is still the same.

I missed nothing. This argument is not about quality. Those huge strides have come real damn late. And if that is in fact true, then restructuring under chalter 11 might be exactly what they need to do. Reduce the number of and types of vehicles and sell the **** out of those to get back on their feet.

Originally Posted by Rhino

It doesn't matter how long honda's been doing it... what I'm talking about is the fact that the GM is almost on par with them and gaining fast. GM's perception in your eyes still hasn't changed even though they've remedied the situation.

Don't talk about what's in my eyes. I own a ford, chevy, jeep, hond and a damn yamaha bike.

Originally Posted by Rhino

If you think Buying a Honda is the same as buying GM, you really need to follow the money trail to see where it ends up.

I DON'T CARE WHERE THE PROFITS GO! It's none of my business. If any of us really did we wouldn't be buying so many chinese goods. And if you are buying those you are just blowing smoke.

If you cannot stay on topic then there is never anything that anyone can say that will affect your way of thinking. The idea of where the profits go, is an ENTIRELY different subject. But you cannot deny that there are thousands of jobs at foreign manufactures right here in the US. Would you rather them go under and lose those jobs, even though they are producing cars people want, so that you can keep your job?

You and the big 3 are relying on blind loyalty. Sorry, but that is gone.

[Vegas69]

I'm not against the loan so to speak. It's got to be done the right way. There needs to be specific language on how the money can be used. Let's face it....if one of them goes under then we won't be paid in full. The loan should come with forced changes in the way they do business as well. The execs and union should make some concessions along with the workers. The worst thing is a loan with lousy conditions attached. I agree that they needs to blow out some of the excess inventory and recover some of there own liquidity. Stop producing vehicles that are saturated. I just don't understand how all three can be going broke. We just went through a huge car buying revolution. How about socking away some reserves. Sounds a lot like the Real Estate/Banking situation doesn't it. Feast on the good times and not prepare for the bad.

[Rhino]

Originally Posted by sniper

I missed nothing. This argument is not about quality. Those huge strides have come real damn late. And if that is in fact true, then restructuring under chalter 11 might be exactly what they need to do. Reduce the number of and types of vehicles and sell the **** out of those to get back on their feet.

Don't talk about what's in my eyes. I own a ford, chevy, jeep, hond and a damn yamaha bike.

I DON'T CARE WHERE THE PROFITS GO! It's none of my business. If any of us really did we wouldn't be buying so many chinese goods. And if you are buying those you are just blowing smoke.

If you cannot stay on topic then there is never anything that anyone can say that will affect your way of thinking. The idea of where the profits go, is an ENTIRELY different subject. But you cannot deny that there are thousands of jobs at foreign manufactures right here in the US. Would you rather them go under and lose those jobs, even though they are producing cars people want, so that you can keep your job?

You and the big 3 are relying on blind loyalty. Sorry, but that is gone.

When I read your response to my post I misread your response. That's why I was speaking of quality.

I don't agree with your argument that buying foreign is just as much American as a US manufacturer. In my eyes, if more money ends up in foreign hands, buying an import is not the same as buying American.
The reason I bring profit into it is that the end location of the money is really all that separates all auto manufacturers. They're all building them in the US with Euro designs and engines built on a completely different continent.
I don't want the imports to go under either. They've increased competition, which is ultimately good for the consumer. As you have already pointed out they also create US jobs as well.

Even though GM is where my heart lies, I'm far from blind to the competition. I own Chevrolet, Pontiac, Dodge, Jeep, and a Suzuki bike. Through my Fiance I have access to Honda and Acura. From my experience so far, honda hasn't treated us any better than GM or Chrysler.

Gm isnt going bankrupt because of quality, because for the past decade when all the "rich" people were buying hummers and vettes on gmac the quality was good enough for them.Gm's looming failure is due the credit crisis/recession whatever you want to call it not bad quality.and running out and buying gm right now will not solve anything, in fact its what got us into this mess.

[TonyL]

aaand this morning all three executives showed up in their private jets at a cost of $22,000 PER COMPANY. the price of a first class ticket? 800 bucks.

These guys JUST DONT GET IT. Dont stand on a street corner in an armani suit with your hand out. Start ACTING like you're hurting and people might believe it. Loan or no, There is NO EVIDENCE that any of the big three have a plan to get themselves out of the habits that got them where they are. You dont give money to a crack addict that hasn't been to rehab. These guys are just going to blow whatever we give them. Bad businesses deserve to die. Another company or companies will rise up to take their place. Sometimes you have to cut off a rotting limb so the body can survive. It hurts, but it's what has to be done.

[Vegas69]

Bingo.....somebody will buy them and make them profitable if in fact they fail. Only problem is it probably won't be an American company. Hell it's hard enough to get an American beer now.

Originally Posted by TonyL

aaand this morning all three executives showed up in their private jets at a cost of $22,000 PER COMPANY. the price of a first class ticket? 800 bucks.

These guys JUST DONT GET IT. Dont stand on a street corner in an armani suit with your hand out. Start ACTING like you're hurting and people might believe it. Loan or no, There is NO EVIDENCE that any of the big three have a plan to get themselves out of the habits that got them where they are. You dont give money to a crack addict that hasn't been to rehab. These guys are just going to blow whatever we give them. Bad businesses deserve to die. Another company or companies will rise up to take their place. Sometimes you have to cut off a rotting limb so the body can survive. It hurts, but it's what has to be done.

exactly, everyone says we need to bail gm out to protect their hard working employees, which doesnt make any sense because GM execs do not care one bit about their workers, they will ship every single assembly job to any country in the world in a hearbeat. yet people are loyal to the gm brand.

[Rhino]

You looking for a career change Tony? I wonder if we could round up enough voting stock to get you to the top.