Hydraulic Throwout Bearing Issues (maybe) - help!

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by reboot04

Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas, or recommendations on what these measurement mean and what remedy there may be?

My first thought was maybe bad TOB?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
James

** DELETED BY KEISLER DUE TO IRRELEVANT CONTENT **

[James OLC]

Yeah... thanks

And now back to something that's actually relevant/applicable...
(sorry pet peeve)

I'm still waiting for the replacment TOB (should be here tomorrow) but, following Andrew's advice, I picked up a proper Quartermaster machined alignment tool. More annoying than self serving tripe is the useless alignment tool that McLeod ships with thir clutch... you would think that when you charge nearly a thousand bucks for a clutch, you would include an alignent tool that fits the application (then again, I would also think that when you sell a scattershield for an LSx you would include metric hardware - but what do I know).

So the clutch is back in and as soon as the TOB show's up I'll change the hydraulic lines and reinstall everything.

[XcYZ]

Shafi, I don't see what pushing your kit has to do with the downshifting issue that James is seeing.

James, out of curiousity, did you check the bellhousing centerline alignment?

[James OLC]

I didn't see the relevance there myself...

The McLeod bellhousing makes it really difficult to check or double check any of the conventional alignment or runout specs - the big irregular hole might make it easier for some things but a consistent reference it is not. There is no indication on the pilot bearing or the input shaft of it being out of alignment but it is something that I am trying to rule out.

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by XcYZ

Shafi, I don't see what pushing your kit has to do with the downshifting issue that James is seeing.

James, out of curiousity, did you check the bellhousing centerline alignment?

XcTZ,

The downshifting issue is very likely related to the clutch release issue. The clutch is not releasing cleanly. Once James get's the hydraulic bearing issue corrected, then he will next need to determine if the twin disk floater is moving cleanly and releasing the clutch.

Here's the "pushing sales" pitch, so brace yourself. Our hydraulic kits are a far more advanced and better design and we don't have these sorts of problems. Years ago before we discontinued the product in 2003, we sold many hundreds of the McLeod hydraulic product and the Street Twin clutch. We worked through these problems first hand, issued recall notices, issue repair/upgrade parts, issued replacement notices for the entire bearing.

In all fairness, my original post from yesterday fell short of conveying the proper level of information.

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by reboot04

Yeah... thanks

And now back to something that's actually relevant/applicable...
(sorry pet peeve)

I'm still waiting for the replacment TOB (should be here tomorrow) but, following Andrew's advice, I picked up a proper Quartermaster machined alignment tool. More annoying than self serving tripe is the useless alignment tool that McLeod ships with thir clutch...

James, that is a lame reply to someone trying to help you. On the Pro-Touring.com website, I responded to your same call for help on the same issue here. Since my post above was unclear, I'll post some more information that should be a little more relevant:

First, here is the response I posted on P-T:
"James, I have not read all of these post replies, but I can tell you that if your numbers are correct then you are constantly engaging the clutch fingers and it would be a wonder the clutch is not burned up.

If the 2.25inch number is correct, you need to reshim the bearing to 2.10 - 2.0inch compressed and not any more. You can see my comments about why on the other thread mentioned with the Pontiac guy with the Weir bellhousing.

If you hit a wall on this, PM me and we'll help you further."

It's clear to me - with the experience of selling more than several hundred of the same McLeod bearing you are using, and more than a couple hundred McLeod Street Twin just like you are prematurely toasting - that either the wrong bearing piston size was sent (bolt-on design) or you installed it wrong (slip on design). Either way the instructions that came with the product *should* have provided you with adequate information to prevent this problem.

Next, you can set up the bearing however you'd like, but I will tell you what you *should* do if you don't want to continue ruining the clutch:
1. maintain .150 +.05 / -.03 clearance from the fingers of your clutch to the face of the bearing in the compressed state
2.A) if you are using the McLeod slip on type, LOCKTITE BLUE the thread in sleeve so it doesnt' back in or out, because it will likely change position if you don't
2.B) if you are using the McLeod bolt on type, the pistons are numbered 1-8, and they increment in .200 inch. So you will will need to determine which piston change by the amount of interference or air gap. You can't do this with the unit apart as you are trying to do.
3. pre-bleed the entire system, then install it to the car and final bleed it
4. if you did everything above correctly, AND you have the correct master cylinder bore and stroke AND you have connected it to the pedal at the correct location to achieve the correct throw WITHOUT bottoming out the master cylinder before landing the pedal on the floor THEN the clutch should release at 1/3 to 1/2 of pedal travel. IF it releases at the top of the pedal, then you need to go back to square one and recheck you numbers.


A couple other tips for the McLeod hydr bearing - both slip on and bolt on:
1. if it comes with banjo joints, throw them away and make hard lines. You can get the inverted flare seat fitting with the correct male side to screw in from most any good hydraulic store
2. get a couple spare sets of o-ring kits from them 'cause you will need it and you don't want to be stuck without one. They used to send a spare oring set with the unit just for this purpose.
3. run DOT4 fluid


Good luck

[James OLC]

I guess my frustration with your post(s) is that appears, at least to me, that (as you mentioned on the PT reply) that you haven't read through the thread and are not addressing my issue. I appreciate your input and that you have a bunch of experience but your first reply here yesterday was a promotion for a product that you offer that does not fit my car - not a solution. Your post today, while informative, is also not applicable to my circumstance. I don't have a McLeod TOB...

[James OLC]

I do agree that the clutch release and hydraulic 'system' is very probably the issue - especially given the appearance of the clutch (ie. not burnt up or abnormally worn) but again, your product does not appear to be applicable to my application (ie. Tilton 77 series MC with 900-series pedal assembly).

[KEISLER]

Originally Posted by reboot04

I guess my frustration with your post(s) is that appears, at least to me, that (as you mentioned on the PT reply) that you haven't read through the thread and are not addressing my issue. I appreciate your input and that you have a bunch of experience but your first reply here yesterday was a promotion for a product that you offer that does not fit my car - not a solution. Your post today, while informative, is also not applicable to my circumstance. I don't have a McLeod TOB...

James,
I read through ALL of this thread's post before replying today. The majority of what I posted regarding setup is relevant for the pancake style slip on CSC hydraulic bearings.

In fact, we do offer a solution for this unless I am missing something that you have declared in this thread.

Regarding your clutch, I am unsure how to read your comment about the pristine condition of the clutch. Indeed, the Street Twin clutch pictures presented are not of a pristine clutch, but one that is showing considerable signs of hotspotting and abnormal wear. I'll exit off this thread, and I wish you the best in getting it all worked out.

[JodysTransmissions]

Checking the pictures of your flywheel and clutch components, there are a lot of heat spots for only 100 miles. That tends to lean towards your clutch not fully releasing or you ride the clutch a lot to get moving. I would doubt with a 6 speed you need to ride the clutch?!

I doubt this is in the transmission issue since up shifting is fine. Hopefully this will ease your mind a bit.

Downshifting a transmission is harder than upshifting one, as you downshift, each mainshaft gear is spinning faster than the higher selected gear you shifted down from. That is why you can easily shift 1-2-3-6 but you need to slow your vehicle speed down if you want to shift 6-3-2-1.

What ever you do, you need to resolve this before you ruin your expensive clutch and your Rockzilla. Maybe an engineered hydrauilic kit might save you some money.

Those heat spots may now cause clutch chatter once your other issues are resovled.