Ok Builders, I need some input... (pics)

[ccracin]

Jason / Paul,

First, I mean no disrespect at all and I agree there is a right way and the fast way. In my first post I was just trying to say there should be some target and preferably in writing. It looks like you have been doing this for awhile, therefore I still believe you should be able to put some legitimate estimates to this work no matter how bad the car gets. Progress meetings can take care of that and it sounds like you do that. I'm just saying formalize it. Just saying you never know what you get into so I won't give an estimate is a cop out in my opinion. From the pictures, you have been around the block and should have an idea of what it takes to fix everything you have encountered. I estimate the cost of building 1 off million dollar pieces of equipment on a regular basis. If I told my customers this hasn't been done before so I can't put a number on it, I would never get an order. That's just not how business is done and saying you can't put a price or time limit on art is just a bad TV cliche. In the end I am not trying to argue, I'm just trying give another point of view. I certainly can understand the customer being anxious. You are building one bad a$$ ride for him and hopefully he won't push it and cost the overall project. I think my point is made and I don't want continue beating this nag.

On a side note, where in Birmingham are you guys? I graduated from Pelham High School. I lived in the B'ham area for 3 years as a transplant because of my Dad's job. I loved it. Maybe I'll get back there someday.

Later,

[SVPJason]

Originally Posted by ccracin

Jason / Paul,

First, I mean no disrespect at all and I agree there is a right way and the fast way. In my first post I was just trying to say there should be some target and preferably in writing. It looks like you have been doing this for awhile, therefore I still believe you should be able to put some legitimate estimates to this work no matter how bad the car gets. Progress meetings can take care of that and it sounds like you do that. I'm just saying formalize it. Just saying you never know what you get into so I won't give an estimate is a cop out in my opinion. From the pictures, you have been around the block and should have an idea of what it takes to fix everything you have encountered. I estimate the cost of building 1 off million dollar pieces of equipment on a regular basis. If I told my customers this hasn't been done before so I can't put a number on it, I would never get an order. That's just not how business is done and saying you can't put a price or time limit on art is just a bad TV cliche. In the end I am not trying to argue, I'm just trying give another point of view. I certainly can understand the customer being anxious. You are building one bad a$$ ride for him and hopefully he won't push it and cost the overall project. I think my point is made and I don't want continue beating this nag.

On a side note, where in Birmingham are you guys? I graduated from Pelham High School. I lived in the B'ham area for 3 years as a transplant because of my Dad's job. I loved it. Maybe I'll get back there someday.

Later,

No offence taken, that's why I said positive or negative input. I understand where your coming from...

thanks

We're about 30 mile east of B'ham off of I20..

Last question....can you give me the info on those exhaust tips? I'm "in the market" and like those.....

actually they are magnaflow...

[skatinjay27]

yea in one of the pics you can faintly see the magnaflow lable etched on them.

[tjbruning]

Originally Posted by skatinjay27

yea in one of the pics you can faintly see the magnaflow lable etched on them.

to totally derail this thread...

[SVPJason]

you have hijacked this this thread and you must die... bwuuuhahahahaha...

[chicane]

Wow... I have to giggle on this one a little.

I mean... eighteen months ago you were delivered a well disguised bag of sh*t. In that eighteen months... you basically did a "Frame off" restoration, to the likes that no one has seen before and would never try to begin with... and then I hear that the game plan has changed whilst in route to it's end game ?? Oh... and don't tell me... you are also running a business and he isn't your only customer ??

And... somehow, this is your fault ??


That's comedy. You should tell him that he's lucky it has only been eighteen months with a two man crew. Especially considering what it is that you have actually accomplished.

Tell him he should check out Lateral-G.net, Pro-Touring.com and introduce himself... and then suggest that he educate himself to the logic and common sense involved with a project of this magnitude. And...

We'll take care of the rest.


Seriously. You need to make him aware that if this requires you to push some other work aside to meet his deadline of SEMA 2009... that you will need to adjust the rate at which you charge to do said work. Personally, I would adopt my theory for correcting the scale...

For example:

Normal rate: $75 an hour

You want it tomorrow: $100

You want it today: $150 an hour

You want it when !?!! : $!?!! an hour


If a client wants exclusivity... the client will have to pay the exclusivity tax.

BTW... nice work. The late model tunnel idea gets props. Kudos

[ironworks]

Originally Posted by chicane

Wow... I have to giggle on this one a little.

I mean... eighteen months ago you were delivered a well disguised bag of sh*t. In that eighteen months... you basically did a "Frame off" restoration, to the likes that no one has seen before and would never try to begin with... and then I hear that the game plan has changed whilst in route to it's end game ?? Oh... and don't tell me... you are also running a business and he isn't your only customer ??

And... somehow, this is your fault ??


That's comedy. You should tell him that he's lucky it has only been eighteen months with a two man crew. Especially considering what it is that you have actually accomplished.

Tell him he should check out Lateral-G.net, Pro-Touring.com and introduce himself... and then suggest that he educate himself to the logic and common sense involved with a project of this magnitude. And...

We'll take care of the rest.


Seriously. You need to make him aware that if this requires you to push some other work aside to meet his deadline of SEMA 2009... that you will need to adjust the rate at which you charge to do said work. Personally, I would adopt my theory for correcting the scale...

For example:

Normal rate: $75 an hour

You want it tomorrow: $100

You want it today: $150 an hour

You want it when !?!! : $!?!! an hour


If a client wants exclusivity... the client will have to pay the exclusivity tax.

BTW... nice work. The late model tunnel idea gets props. Kudos

Very Well said, sounds like a deal to me....

[J2SpeedandCustom]

Nice work!

Just out of curiosity what was or is the customers budget? What were/are his expectations for the car?

From my experience customers have "scope" creep, which means they continually think about new or different things to do. The problem with that is what you are facing right now he doesn't understand what those changes mean in time and money. Communication is key and it sounds like you both aren't on the same page. Remember it's "his" car so getting on the same page, with the same goal is paramount. Building a car is all about comprimises if he wants it done for a show, then a path needs to be laid out for him to get to that goal. He will realize once shown what the car will look like going down that path. And he may be alright with that...

[Mick Mc]

Originally Posted by chicane

Normal rate: $75 an hour

You want it tomorrow: $100

You want it today: $150 an hour

You want it when !?!! : $!?!! an hour


If a client wants exclusivity... the client will have to pay the exclusivity tax.

BTW... nice work. The late model tunnel idea gets props. Kudos

I totally disagree with changing the shop rate to have it done faster.

The customer wil not get twice as much work for twice as much pay and you can't work twice as fast. In this case dollars does not equal speed.

If the problem is that the car is not getting worked on, thats one problem.
If the problem is that the customer can only afford 2400 a month (44k divided by 18 months) thats another problem.
If the customer is just impatient and can afford it then 65 per hour, times 40 hours per week, times four weeks per month equals the of the labor bill per month to have the car done. $10400, Can the customer afford this bill?

But which is it? Money or time?

If the customer just can't understand why it takes so long to build things
1. He can't understand HOW things take so long to build and complete.
or
2. He can't afford for you to hire more help to make the job go faster.You could be billing him $20800 per month for two guys working on the car.


It sounds like the customer can't understand why building a car takes SO MUCH TIME. If this is correct you have to ask
1. Can I make the customer understand why it takes so long to build.
2. Can I (Paul) build the car any faster? Why am I not working on the car 40 hours a week. If the customer can pay more for more hours of work and I do have more hours of work to work on the car.

It really sounds like the customer can't understand WHY it is taking so long.
Which means to me he can't understand why it takes so long for certain tasks.
This leads to client education.
Is the client getting a very detailed bill?
Is the client getting alot of pictures?
Is the client stopping by the shop weekly or monthly so you can go over the progress?

If the client just can't understand why it takes so long to weld up a panel and make alignment changes you are going to have problems in the future.
In the future I mean if he thinks it should take a couple of hours to (for instance) wire the car and it takes three or four days to complete he's going to hit the roof.

You know the customer better than we do, but
1. figure out if the client can understand how long things really take to build and complete. Is this a time issue or a budget problem or is he impatient.

2. Maybe its time to let this project go and avoid the problems that are going to get worse as the project nears completion and the dollars escalate and the visual 'look what we got done' diminishes.





Mick


Paul, good having dinner with you at SEMA, (next time not Italian) we'll have to do it again next year.

[svp]

Mick, The problem I think is that he just doesn't "get it" when it comes to what it takes. This is frustrating at a point when you explain it to him and he watches first hand what is involved yet he still just doesn't seem to get it. We have even showed him other projects online and followed the timeline where something like the build Reenmachine did took from painted to finish (reassembly) was 2 1/2 years. I don't know if he just doesn't get it or refuses to let it sink in. I allow him to come to the shop one day a week and get his hands dirty...hoping things sink in but in the end I can't think that it is anymore than just impatience....and I don't think it is intentional but maybe just the way he is. Funny thing is that I have another of his cars in the shop that he bought just getting it roadworthy and I am dying to get it out of here but he just isn't in a rush on that car(which he could be driving...granted it's just a stock Mustang).

We've been over the budget thing with him....originally he wanted a basic Shelby clone but then as was mentioned earlier started changing things. I've explained to him that you can't suddenly put Granite countertops in a house you are building and expect the cost to remain the same as Formica. The cost usually has not been an issue but once before when things were tight he suddenly started in on the cost....I sat down with him and we had a talk and he apologized and said he was that way because things were tight. Communication is key and we keep that door open all the time. I think one of the problems aside from his impatience is just the way he comes across to Jason....rule of thumb is that you don't want to annoy the guy cooking your dinner and you don't want to annoy the guy building your car....enthusiasm for the meal or build is going to be reduced if it is associated with something that annoys you. I think Jason is trying to find a nice way to ask him to just leave him alone and let him build and his asking for input here is because he wants to make sure he isn't out of line with his thinking before talking with him. There is going to be no problem having this project finished for SEMA but trying to finish it for a Mustang show next month is just unreasonable really.

and This year yes, we have to definitely get together again....we had a great time! This time I am booking a hotel that is more convenient!