FINALLY!! Headers for LSX+DSE combination

[chicane]

Originally Posted by abadsvt

"Peaky" Can you explain? I always thought equal length was an ideal setup.

Josh

4 into 1 vs. stepped try-y's... has always been healthy debate. Both have their 'applications'... but one is much better suited than the other, for a given application.

"Equal length" became a buzz word from the application. That buzz word was in reference to, obviously, making the primary tubes equal length... vice that of a tube header without equal length primaries. Now remember... we're referencing 1950's era buzz and technology. But... simply stated, yes... 4 into 1 'equal length' headers were much better than what the OEM and most aftermarket had available. But... how are they better... and most importantly, what application(s) are they better for?

In an application where the operational power band is relatively narrow (which really limits it's ability in most cases)... an equal length 4 into 1 header is choice. An application that suits that specifically is drag racing... where you pretty much operate in a limited range, in the latter quarter of the RPM band. Another application... would be on the engine dyno... where you are trying to make "peak" numbers... if only for a cock swinging contest. The 4 into 1 equal length design is well established for these applications... and is used in many forms of racing where the length of the track, or the lack of turns is present... like that in super speedways or longer oval tracks... where you are at a sustained throttle position, in the latter part of the RPM band.

The Try-y... also a 1950's design/creation... changed the approach and opened up many doors into the understanding of fluid dynamics. The basic design theory is 'pairing' of cylinders in the firing order. When the next (paired) cylinder's exhaust valve opens, the vacuum in the system pulls the exhaust out of the cylinder. This design improves the scavenging of individual cylinders and the tube length effects the time of the phasing, of the individual pulse.

Try-y's have always been though of as making better low and mid range power, but give up some at the top end. Meaning: they don't make the peak numbers that a 4 into 1 design would make. That is far from true in this day and age. With the advent of the "X Design" program and late model engineering practice... the newer Try-y designs make, not only more power under the curve... but peak power as well.


Now... for the practical application. If you were to only drive your car at full throttle, in the latter quarter of the power curve... the 4 into 1 would be something to consider. So... if your drag racing... that is pretty much your best bet... in most cases. If your driving on a long oval where you rarely fluctuate more than about 2k RPM... the 4 into 1 would be something to consider.

But... we drive our cars on the street and some of us at the track as well, which both are very similar. Normally, where you utilize more that 75% of the RPM band width... just as it would be on the street like it would also be on a road course... the Try-y makes more sense. More usable power under the curve... and in the majority of cases, more peak power.

Todays professional race teams know this... the C6R Corvettes, Trophy Trucks... and even the left hand turn club (NASCAR) utilize the Try-y specifically for road course efforts... they all use the Try-y design. Katech Engine Development, who builds engines for Pratt&Miller and the Corvette C6R, a few Trophy Truck's and some NASCAR efforts (not to mention they were the proverbial **** back in the Trans-Am days)... dropped a set of ATS Try-y headers on a standard engine package that is the mainstay of their aftermarket business... and they made more power everywhere... under the curve and even peak... over their custom dyno headers that were made for that particular engine package.

Considering 'our' application in duality... the streets and even some road course work... I very much believe the Try-y design is better suited for 'our' use. If they were not... we wouldn't have even considered the design in the first place when ATS developed it's Try-y header with Burns Stainless for the First Gen F-body and specific use with the LS7 or higher performance LSx applications.

[skatinjay27]

as always thanks for the good reading!

the good thing about reading your post over when we talk face to face is you give out so much info its neccesary to go back and re-read it LOL


do you know of any other options (brands) of tri-ys for a sbc in my car other than the doug thorleys?

[WSSix]

$2230 is nuts. That's really uncalled for and way over priced. Stainless Works has been making their 304 headers for half that for pretty much ever. They may not have this particular application but they have many many others.


Here's what $1600 will buy you and I can assure you, it's a more difficult fit than putting headers onto an LSx in a 1st gen. These are some of the best C5/6 vette headers on the planet.

http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...c14775624dc194

[Vegas69]

I agree that the price is out of this world. I bet lemons has a set of killer headers for way less.

[Flash68]

Wicked nice I agree. But there is a nice "DSE tax" included in that price for their great name.

[Bowtieracing]

Originally Posted by WSSix

$2230 is nuts. That's really uncalled for and way over priced. Stainless Works has been making their 304 headers for half that for pretty much ever. They may not have this particular application but they have many many others.
Here's what $1600 will buy you and I can assure you, it's a more difficult fit than putting headers onto an LSx in a 1st gen. These are some of the best C5/6 vette headers on the planet.
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...c14775624dc194

What would i do with set of 1600$ headers if i cant get them to fit my chassis ?? What is the point of saving 830 there ? And believe me i have done the search on these. StainlessWorks do not offer anything on DSE sub + LSx combination. How about plug wires ? How many headers you have seen take stock wires? ( header wires cost $$$ too )

Originally Posted by Vegas69

I agree that the price is out of this world. I bet lemons has a set of killer headers for way less.

Similar headers made in stainless cost even more at Lemons.( 2450+220 for V bands= 2670$ )

Did we set a beers as bet ??

I wish there would be cheaper alternative. But so far i have not found any in stainless,1 7/8" and V bands

[WSSix]

Originally Posted by Bowtieracing

What would i do with set of 1600$ headers if i cant get them to fit my chassis ?? What is the point of saving 830 there ? And believe me i have done the search on these. StainlessWorks do not offer anything on DSE sub + LSx combination. How about plug wires ? How many headers you have seen take stock wires? ( header wires cost $$$ too )






Similar headers made in stainless cost even more at Lemons.( 2450+220 for V bands= 2670$ )

Did we set a beers as bet ??

I wish there would be cheaper alternative. But so far i have not found any in stainless,1 7/8" and V bands

My point was the price is high for the DSE headers. I used those C6 headers as an example of what other similar products cost ie SS headers. Much of the cost in headers is the complexity of the design. The LG headers are a complex design for their chassis and happen to be a more complex design than the DSE headers yet cost much less. Volume of sales must be factored in as well of course but even then, I still think DSE is high. Stainless Works was just another example of a similar product. If what you need is what DSE has, then you won't have much choice but to pay the price. That still doesn't change the fact that the price is high. Which is my opinion ultimately. In a captialistic economy, nothing is priced too high if someone buys it.

[Bowtieracing]

Originally Posted by Sparky67

Well, Lemons can give you the design that you need. Regardless, even if you get Stainless headers. You will still need to have them ceramic coated. Tom Nelson recommends that be done on their turbo headers.

Jeff

Yes,nothing against lemons but i just cant afford them. And all props to Tom but i dont feel like needing coating on N/A stainless headers.

[Vegas69]

My thoughts were that you could have a set of regular steel headers made by lemons for quite a bit less. Stainless is a whole different story. I've never been a fan of the blueing of any exhaust pipe.