With more PT cars being tracked is it changing PT vendors product offerings?

[70rs]

Originally Posted by rogue

HP has nothing to do with being fast. You realize this when you're passed by a spec miata or boxster. Its all driver.

A key fact most pro-touring folks forget. Hence many cars being driven by other drivers and not the owners.

In the track community you'll hear stories about stock looking subarus and occasionally oddball cars like mazda speeds showing up to track events and dominating the entire field. Why? not power, its the driver, and the driver knows the car.

That is kind of what I was getting at Dane. I think we agree? Too much power can be a waste beyond a certain point. Or at the least harder to manage and actually hurt lap times if you're spending time correcting or fighting the power delivery. But then again it all comes back to the driver there too.

[rogue]

Originally Posted by 70rs

That is kind of what I was getting at Dane. I think we agree? Too much power can be a waste beyond a certain point. Or at the least harder to manage and actually hurt lap times if you're spending time correcting or fighting the power delivery. But then again it all comes back to the driver there too.

We definitely agree. Knowing what I know now, I would have built my car in this order:

Nice shell
Full cage or roll hoop depending on your goals
Fire suppression
Proper seats
Every Carbon Fiber weight loss part from Anvil
Everything else fiberglass where possible for weight savings
Proper Brakes
Suspension setup of your choosing
Driving school
Racing school
AutoX events
Track days, LOTS of them

Drivetrain can remain slow while you learn to drive the car. 300hp is fine. You upgrade your drivetrain when you're capable fully utilizing the power.

A properly trained driver in a Mazda Miata will lap most of the cars on these forums. A fact most people will not believe....

That said, a lot of people are not building track toys or race cars, they are building their preference of luxury, comfort, performance in their own car. Most seem to lean towards comfort and luxury.

I believe a lot of the people in this community are trying to build a lexus out of a muscle car. Any time I see mention of mpg or AC I know who I'm talking to.

[70rs]

Originally Posted by rogue

Drivetrain can remain slow while you learn to drive the car. 300hp is fine. You upgrade your drivetrain when you're capable fully utilizing the power.


Any time I see mention of mpg or AC I know who I'm talking to.

I agree with your comment on power. And the Miata driver too.
BUT......I want AC and decent MPG!

[rogue]

Originally Posted by 70rs

I agree with your comment on power. And the Miata driver too.
BUT......I want AC and decent MPG!

Buy a prius!

[Stuart Adams]

When I drove my blue car with all the DSE suspension parts and an LS7 with approx 540 hp, it definately felt like the car could handle another 150 hp. So its all relative, if you have a good foundation 550hp seems easily manageable. If you have a stock camaro and 700 hp, you better have life insurance.

[rogue]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

When I drove my blue car with all the DSE suspension parts and an LS7 with approx 540 hp, it definately felt like the car could handle another 150 hp. So its all relative, if you have a good foundation 550hp seems easily manageable. If you have a stock camaro and 700 hp, you better have life insurance.

a stock camaro with 700hp wont go past 60mph

[70rs]

Originally Posted by Stuart Adams

When I drove my blue car with all the DSE suspension parts and an LS7 with approx 540 hp, it definately felt like the car could handle another 150 hp. So its all relative, if you have a good foundation 550hp seems easily manageable. If you have a stock camaro and 700 hp, you better have life insurance.

I can't imagine my car in stock form with 500hp. Let alone 700hp! LOL!!

I will have it set up with very good suspension and brakes and tires too. Performance is the goal. The car will be better than I am. Just like my bike is.
So MY goal is 500-550 but in a properly built chassis. Maybe someday I will grow into it and need more. But I try to be realistic about that kind of thing.
I think I am better off with a well balanced car instead of a HP monster, no skills and stock chassis.

So I am very glad the manufacturers are going in the direction of performance more and more now. Back in the Pro Street days that was not the case. If it was chrome or billet it went on the car. Performance was not even a consideration. In fact many didn't even run. To me that is a GIANT waste of cash. Any part that does not make the car a better performer should not be on it IMO.

[Matt@BOS]

Originally Posted by 70rs

I agree with your comment on power. And the Miata driver too.
BUT......I want AC and decent MPG!

I thought that too, until I realized that, as of now and until the weather stripping is adjusted, my car is quieter with the windows down, so I doubt I'll ever need A/C. Now, decent MPGs are nice, but then again so is the sound of a big block.

Dane, I'd also agree that minitubs are at least somewhat for looks in most cases, and could represent some kind of weird, distorted pro-street nostalgia, but hey what about big blocks
BTW, I definitely know of several local cars that owners are trying to turn into Lexus/BMWs, most of those owners have more into their half finished cars than many of the finished high-end cars here, just because they always change their minds. I think most of them lack the ability to differentiate between creature comforts and new car feel.

Matt

[rogue]

Originally Posted by 69MSA

I thought that too, until I realized that, as of now and until the weather stripping is adjusted, my car is quieter with the windows down, so I doubt I'll ever need A/C. Now, decent MPGs are nice, but then again so is the sound of a big block.

Dane, I'd also agree that minitubs are at least somewhat for looks in most cases, and could represent some kind of weird, distorted pro-street nostalgia, but hey what about big blocks
BTW, I definitely know of several local cars that owners are trying to turn into Lexus/BMWs, most of those owners have more into their half finished cars than many of the finished high-end cars here, just because they always change their minds. I think most of them lack the ability to differentiate between creature comforts and new car feel.

Matt

Muscle cars aren't about luxury, they're about riding lightning and turning money into heat, adrenaline, noise and melted rubber. They always have been and always should be.

To refine a muscle car is a sin. I can understand AC, power steering, comfy seats. But to expect modern car comfort and "get in and go" functionality out of one seems to go against the mere purpose of the vehicle.

Then again, I'm a guy stuffing a 170whp Yamaha R1 with a sequential gearbox in a 1970 mini, so I have a few screws loose myself.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

I think some people should have bought an AMG SL55 instead of a 1969 camaro though on these forums.

A refined muscle car is cute, I'd like one for my girlfriend.

[skatinjay27]

1- camaro's are pony cars not muscle cars.
2- i live in vegas and AC is a need here.