Wayne Dues C4 front sub-frame

[clay69camaro]

I want mine to be mainly a track car, that I can terrorize my community with from time to time haha.

I'm planning on building a 434 small block. I bought some GMPP 18 degree heads a few years back with a ton of quality parts for my top end. So now I've just got to get to a point where I can afford to buy the short block.

As for subframe connectors... Haven't put much thought into them yet. I have to replace so much sheetmetal. One rear frame rails is bent from an accident before I bought the car, so I have to figure out what I'll do about that.

I feel lost in my build sometimes. like I might be doing some stuff backwards haha

[ProdigyCustoms]

Originally Posted by clay69camaro

I want mine to be mainly a track car, that I can terrorize my community with from time to time haha.

I am going to be blunt, as if I have not all ready! You are in a bad marriage to this subframe.

If your going to build a track car, you need to not screw with this thing. On a track car suspension is NOT the area to cheat. It is like taking a knife to a gun fight and trying to sharpen both edges of the knife instead of one side to make it better. You still lose.

I realize budget plays into these decisions. And i know it is hard to give up on something you felt so strong about at the beginning. And I am the worlds biggest fan of get it done and drive it instead of stressing over the best parts and not finishing it. I gave Clay that very advice. But he is not building a track car either!

If it were me and I had bent rear rails that had to be replaced. I would buy a AME rear clip and a front subframe to match. Then again, depending on where the rails are bent, it might all be superficial and not play into any of the suspension mounting depending what rear suspension you pick. If the rails are bent behind the mounting points you could consider any system and I would buy that companies front kit to match.

If you get a few grand for that WD frame, you net cost difference to a quality piece is a few grand.

Otherwise I just see a lot of disappointment and regret in your future if you stay in this bad marriage to this WD subframe.

[GregWeld]

Well said Frank.

[clay69camaro]

I just don't understand how it worked on the mule, but it can't work for me.

As of right now buying a new sub-frame is 100% not an option.

I'm moving over the summer and need the car to be able to roll. Maybe after I get settled in I'll be able to get it sold, break even since I bought it used too.

Thank you though, probably will give you a call and figure out what I need for my build before I buy next time.

Mark one up for lack of experience.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by clay69camaro

I just don't understand how it worked on the mule, but it can't work for me.

As of right now buying a new sub-frame is 100% not an option.

I'm moving over the summer and need the car to be able to roll. Maybe after I get settled in I'll be able to get it sold, break even since I bought it used too.

Thank you though, probably will give you a call and figure out what I need for my build before I buy next time.

Mark one up for lack of experience.

It can be made to work, just depends on how much work and money you want to spend to make it work. I sent Mark an e-mail, I'll let you know what he says......

I do know I rode in the Mule on a road course with Mark driving and the car was very stable and very fast. I remember Mark saying he was happy with how it worked on the track. I'm not saying it's the best way to go subframe-wise, but I think you can make it work plenty well to have fun with since you already own it and cannot afford to buy something else.

[dhutton]

Probably a stupid question, but are you sure you don't have those steering arms on upside down? It looks to me like they might be and that the tie rods should be connected to the arms from the bottom. I'm far from an expert so maybe someone else who knows better will take a look.

It might help if you post a picture with the control arms set at ride height instead of full drop. The second picture that you posted is the one that just looks a little wrong to me.

Don

[Z06vette]

My tie rods mount to the bottom of the steering arms. Our C4 subs are a bit different, so I cant say for sure yours is wrong. Scott

[Stielow]

Originally Posted by camcojb

It can be made to work, just depends on how much work and money you want to spend to make it work. I sent Mark an e-mail, I'll let you know what he says......

I do know I rode in the Mule on a road course with Mark driving and the car was very stable and very fast. I remember Mark saying he was happy with how it worked on the track. I'm not saying it's the best way to go subframe-wise, but I think you can make it work plenty well to have fun with since you already own it and cannot afford to buy something else.

The Mule had a front clip from Art Rasmusion (sp?). When Art passed away un-expectantly Wayne Due purchased the tooling to make the front clips. I have NO idea what Wayne Due did to the original design...

On the Art front clip on the Mule I modified the clip to take a Delphi steering rack. A shortened C-5 Corvette. BTW that system still has a noise in it that ticks me off to this day. With that I had to made one off steering arms to fix the bump steer and ackerman angles. We also added down bars in the engine bay to triangulate it due to how light it was.

The Mule works great. But it doesn’t have a front clip made by Wayne Due!

Mark

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by Stielow

The Mule had a front clip from Art Rasmusion (sp?). When Art passed away un-expectantly Wayne Due purchased the tooling to make the front clips. I have NO idea what Wayne Due did to the original design...

On the Art front clip on the Mule I modified the clip to take a Delphi steering rack. A shortened C-5 Corvette. BTW that system still has a noise in it that ticks me off to this day. With that I had to made one off steering arms to fix the bump steer and ackerman angles. We also added down bars in the engine bay to triangulate it due to how light it was.

The Mule works great. But it doesn’t have a front clip made by Wayne Due!

Mark

thanks Mark. I thought Wayne used Art's design. If he made any revisions down the road I'm not sure what they were and when he made them. I had heard that his C4 clips were Arts design, and then he made changes when he started offering C5 clips.

Jody