Mass Flo EFI.....good alternative? - Lateral-g Forums

supremeefi · #1 07-20-2010, 05:34 PM

1st question, how much cam do you have. Also, can't be true sequential if there is no cam sensor. You figure it out.

Check out my video where I talk about the very same system. Go to Featured Video on the bottom right.

http://www.accel-dfi.com/

Pdale · #2 07-21-2010, 01:49 PM

If you have a duel sync distributor you can have sequential though right?

supremeefi · #3 07-21-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pdale

If you have a duel sync distributor you can have sequential though right?

Yes that's exactly what they're for. And they are very convenient, one distributor, 2 pick ups. But obviously the ECM needs to be able to run in sequential as well. Some are but aren't adjustable.

71RS/SS396 · #4 07-22-2010, 02:42 PM

I have one on a truck project I'm doing, so far I like it, very responsive. I was told these are not that picky about cam selection due to it not using a map sensor, relies on maf and O2. It does seem to be very sensitive to fuel pressure though.

1Bad68Cat · #5 07-22-2010, 03:27 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the system use mainly ford parts except for the mass air meter which is a modified 4th gen f-body. IIRC, the mass air ford stuff is sequential, but does require a chip if not stock. It will run, but it is not optimized. If you want laptop ability you can plug in a twEECr system to make adjustments on the fly.

supremeefi · #6 07-23-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

I have one on a truck project I'm doing, so far I like it, very responsive. I was told these are not that picky about cam selection due to it not using a map sensor, relies on maf and O2. It does seem to be very sensitive to fuel pressure though.

Stick a big cam in it and let me know how it reacts. I have first hand knowledge that they don't like that at all.

Blown353 · #7 07-23-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremeefi

Also, can't be true sequential if there is no cam sensor.

While this doesn't apply to the Massflo system you can have full sequential injection without a cam sensor using only a reluctor wheel on the crank that has enough teeth to provide a high resolution crank signal to the ECU and the ECU has both the processing power and necessary software scheme to decode the crank signal. The ECU can watch the angular acceleration/deceleration of each tooth of the reluctor wheel during compression & firing and calculate/decode the firing order based on the individual tooth accel/decel and then run full sequential injection and also drive coil-per-plug without a cam sensor. I helped set up a Porsche 356 that's coil per plug and sequential injection with no cam sensor needed... and it works great. It's a Pantera 882 ECU by the way, I also have one sitting in the box waiting for my TT LS2 if I ever get it finished. My LS2 will still use a cam sensor although it isn't 100% needed with the 882; the cam sensor is still good for the ECU to do a firing order sanity check and "noise filtering" by comparing the cam signal to the decoded crank signal.

Back to Mass Flo, while I haven't used their specific setup I have messed with a couple of EEC-IV's using twEECer a while back in their native environments (5.0 mustangs.) While the EEC-IV and TFI distributor combo is getting a bit dated it can still run very well (both are readily available and easy to retrofit onto almost anything, probably why they chose it)-- but as was mentioned there are limitations when you get really "wild" with the engine combo. Mass Flo seems to really market to the "bolt on and go" crowd that wants EFI but really doesn't want to mess with it or learn the ins and outs.

My personal preference is for a more modern ECU and a crank reluctor wheel setup for its greater accuracy compared to a distributor trigger setup (no distributor gear backlash, no timing chain slack, etc to throw off injection & spark timing.) Lots more options to grow and change things in the future.

supremeefi · #8 07-24-2010, 05:49 AM

Yes on the TFI distributor the #1 tab on the reluctor wheel is offset, that's how the EEC-IV knows where #1 is. And yes if you have an ECU that can read that then you can go sequential. But I believe the MassFlo system comes with a standard Mallory distributor. I'm pretty sure it fires in batch, not sequential.

But don't lose sight of the fact that while sequential is good, changeable/programmable sequential is better, sometimes much better. Watch the O2 correction as you change injector timing. It will change noticeably no question.

Watch my video on the Accel DFI website. The Mustang I refer to had a 246/249 @ .050 hyd roller in a 427W. They sent the ECU back 3 times, got 4 or 5 different chips, they lost count. Ran like ****. Chris at MassFlo tried to help but nothing worked.
Put the Accel Thruster on it. I put a base tune in it and it fired right up and idled fine. Runs great, guy drives it almost every day.

Also have a buddy who put 226/230 @ .050 cam in his 5.O, didn't run well either. When you said they have their limitations that may be an understatement.

71RS/SS396 · #9 07-25-2010, 05:34 AM

You sound like you work for Accel.

supremeefi · #10 07-25-2010, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396

You sound like you work for Accel.

I'm an Accel dealer, hence the reference to my video on their website.

But there are other good systems out there, i.e. FAST XFI etc.

My point is the aftermarket mass flow systems are good for mild to moderate applications but beyond that they are severly lacking.

And unless I have some bad info the MassFlo/EEC-IV only allows 20 degrees of timing adjustment as well. I have a 350 Olds that has about 16 degrees of advance at idle and 42-44 under cruise with my Gen 7. Do the math, can't do that with their system. Nor can you compensate for temp on the advance side either, more when cold, less when hot. Can be a significant drawback.