The GLM (gross loss margin) will most likely be better than #2.
Build cost - Sale price = net loss / Build cost
90,000 - 60,000 = -30,000 / 90,000 = -33.33%
60,000 - 32,000 = 28,000 / 60,000 = -46.66%
At least that's one way to look at it.
The real value is your personal enjoyment factor in the project.
The venue matters as well. A stock presentation will sell better on Camaros.net, but at Barrett-Jackson Vegas, as an example, visual impact and extreme hardware can really bring in the big bucks.
I doubt the current owner of II Much is wondering about resale value while barreling across a desert road at a buck-twenty-five.
"Does this spoiler make my butt look big...."
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Steve Chryssos
I think I tend to disagree with some of the other comments. A stock appearing say 69 camaro would be much easier to sell but I think anything over 100k would be hard to get in most instances even with all DSE stuff and your above average crate engine. Heck look at Camaro X that the man, the myth, the Legend,................. Mark Stielow built and they tried to sell for months. Charlie finally repainted it to sell it. Or look at Todds camaro.
I also agree Barrett Jackson is a roll of the dice, but there have been quite a handful of cars sell for 250k in the past couple of years. Heck that Kindig it Mustang just sold for 250 or 275 with fees. It brought more money then the car that won street machine of the year the same year it competed. But the car has to stand out in a crowd.
I have been kicking around this same thought for a while. If you took 2 69 Camaros and one was stock appearing with everything DSE sells. So stock appearing with all the typical goodies. Now if you took the same shell of a car to (insert shop name here ) and they did TASTEFUL and MASS APPEALING body mods and their color choice that was popular with currently styling. Then took both to whatever Barrett Jackson event, I would bet money the custom unit would do better. But then you say sure it would do better it has a bigger investment. Yes it does but I think you would get more money out of the custom one to make up the difference in build cost plus. That is saying the suspension, brakes, engine trans, and paint quality are all equal. The custom one would have custom Body mods and a more stylish interior. But for the most part be equal after those specs.
Now if we talk about selling the car to a guy who walks up at your first show with more money then sense and just has to have the car then you will hit it big. I had a customer display a very high end car at SEMA and had an interested party with a foreign English accent ask about purchasing said vehicle for a considerable amount more then build cost. Almost 50% more. The customer was firm in the fact he did not want to sell it, cuz it was the first show and it had some special family value you can't buy. If he ever decides to the sell the car he will kick himself.
Now when you get into all the crazy bells and whistles and stuff, that is when you can loose your ass. Most people could care less if its some bad ass tube chassis triple throw down 5 way adjustable shock, full floater, stainless header and exhaust, well done bondo bucket as long as it looks and runs good and the paint does not fall off and everything works properly. Those items just interest the original owner and a select few you purchase cars for that reason. But the mass majority of people could care less.
I also agree Barrett Jackson is a roll of the dice, but there have been quite a handful of cars sell for 250k in the past couple of years. Heck that Kindig it Mustang just sold for 250 or 275 with fees. It brought more money then the car that won street machine of the year the same year it competed. But the car has to stand out in a crowd.
Yeah, it brought good money this year. But I didn't think the Kindig Mustang met the reserve at BJ LV '11. But then is sold at Mecum KC, 12/2011 for $121k . I remember watching Mecum when it sold, I was very surprised when they lifted the reserve at that price. Something seems fishy to me...
Camaro X still had a GM subframe and was painted white. Not alot of people looking for white cars.
I think a fresh one off custom car will bring good money if it is marketed and sold when it is brand new. Not after it has been exposed, in mags etc. I think the 69 Camaro is a timeless design that stands on it's own regardless of what the latest trend is. I like to stay closer to stock looking. If you build the latest trend you will probably be out of style about the time you want to sell it.
Camaro X still had a GM subframe and was painted white. Not alot of people looking for white cars.
I think a fresh one off custom car will bring good money if it is marketed and sold when it is brand new. Not after it has been exposed, in mags etc. I think the 69 Camaro is a timeless design that stands on it's own regardless of what the latest trend is. I like to stay closer to stock looking. If you build the latest trend you will probably be out of style about the time you want to sell it.
I'm with this guy. Smart folks can spot a full-on, comprehensive build with a custom front clip, link rear suspension, great brakes, etc. A solid number of buyers are willing to pay good money in order to sidestep the build hassles.
And the folks at Barrett-Jackson, for example, know darn well how to tell a stock clip from an aftermarket clip during the consignment phase. I don't know about the other auction houses. I've had this conversation with the VP of Consignment at B-J recently and he'd love to see more full-on builds cross the block.
Perhaps a better question is: What is the ceiling for a budget with the proper list of hard parts, if resale matters?
$75K cost??
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Steve Chryssos
I have wondered that about the carbon fiber craze going on. I know most people go with the carbon fiber products to reduce weight, (I would to if I had the money) but are the exposed carbon panels and the masking of various racing stripes eventually going to date the build. Kind of like the graphics craze of the 80's and 90's?
I would think materials would be different from designs (think tribal stripes)
After all, polished aluminum never went out of style, nore did chrome.. but yea, the whole CF everything just for looks might be replaced by something else.
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"A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."
I have wondered that about the carbon fiber craze going on. I know most people go with the carbon fiber products to reduce weight, (I would to if I had the money) but are the exposed carbon panels and the masking of various racing stripes eventually going to date the build. Kind of like the graphics craze of the 80's and 90's?
The next trend could be carbon panels for their weight reduction and strength with vinyl wraps for easy of change and durability.
Im new to this stuff but have formed some opinions based on first hand experience. I only bring up my opinions to be helpful.
My interest is primarily in vintage Corvettes. I am building a pro-touring 65 Coupe and have a 68 Coupe rolling body ready for deployment. There are 50-75 custom Corvettes that go up for sale every year at the auction houses. Generally they are called resto-mods but are closer to pro-touring than most would think. Few come with roll over protection so that is one difference and most are geared towards comfort and driveabliity versus top-end performance.
Generally a pro-touring Camaro with all the functional bells and whistles, will cost +- $100k if there are no issues/compromises with $$$. Many end up being two seater performance cars. Most will have custom subframes but not chassis. Few to none will have irs.
A pro-touring Corvette/resto-mod will cost the same or less depending on donor car purchase cost. The C1-C3 modded car will have custom chassis, modern irs, drive train etc. For the same build cost and quality components, a superior car can be built if you consider custom chassis and irs superior. I know lots of guys will disagree with that "superior" comment. I say superior because it is mentioned many times in the Camaro/Mustang comparisons of newer cars.
C2 Corvettes are expensive. My build $$$ goal was to build the 65 to 100% of the performance values of a C6 Z06 and not exceed the cost of a new C6 ZR1. Im 90% done and so far so good. For the C3, I can almost reverse the goals and build ZR1 performance for the cost of a top of the line Z06.
Z06/ZR1 cars are expensive so it is easier to build a vintage PT corvette and have a better potential resale value. For evidence go to the BJ auction site search section, and type in custom Corvettes. It will spit up several years of auction sales and each car can be studied to estimate build cost versus return.
Last, my 65 donor car was around $35k, way too expensive, lol. My 68 donor was $3.5k with many C3 nom driveable cars in the $4k-$10k range. I am not building these cars to make money but didnt want to pi$$ it away either, lol. I will never sell them or at least have no plans to do so. I am simply sharing info for the guy who is searching for his next project and isnt happy with the prices of available vintage donor cars. When the cars are done I will join a motorsports ranch and have fun on the weekends. Watch out for the old retired Army guy, lol.
Brian Hobaugh SCCA National Tour June 2014
First Hemi 'Cuda Convertible Ever Built
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