Budget '69 Camaro Track Car - NO WHINERS!

[Sieg]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

We thought we could get a few more from them.

Im looking at a C6 caliper and Z51 rotor kit for him over his current C4 based brakes. The difference in the pad and rotor size alone should be a great help.

A few years ago I made an adapter bracket and just have to get it laser cut. His existing hub should do...we may look to Tobin at Kore3.com for a billet hub and 1/2" studs. Its such a nice easy upgrade.

Then I'll make a rotor cooling deflectors. I haven't found a reliabe way to run cooling ducts and survive anything larger than 255's. Blowing $185 each time I try isn't helping me at all.

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Run the ducts via the frame horns -- in the front / out the sides to the rotors...

Didn't you see the thread on Steilows car? Was clever as hell!!

I'd definitely call Tobin at Kore3. I was just up there last week inspecting his new shop. He's a great guy and an engineer by trade.....so he understands friction and pressure. He may also be able to assist with your bracket design/build. He's also very practical, so you'll to get what you need vs the newest latest and greatest.

Utilizing the frame horns for brake ducts is such a KISS move, when I saw that on Mark's new build I was............

[Track Junky]

Were going to have to save this upgrade for later. I ordered pads and rotors last night.
I did a lot of research and it appears the C4 set up really isn't that bad especially if your running a lighter car. It appears that they were prone to spreading and the way to tell if your caliper has spread is the the pad will wear at an angle from front to back or back to front.
There are also C4 calipers that were not prone to spreading because of the way they were cast. The C4 calipers from Baer(which are the ones I'm using) are not prone to spreading(from what I read) but if they are I will find out shortly because the pads I was using had such a strong bite I can hear and feel the rotors screaming for mercy not to mention the heat checking in them that I had never noticed before.
As far as rotors go I had talked to a guy at the NASA event that told me that he had gone to a Stop Tech rotor that had been treated through a heat and cold process among other treatments(don't remember the exact details) and that these rotors withstood major abuse with no heat checking and for my car through tire rack were only $127 a pop. That is a great price. Not sure how many of you have shopped race rotors but I have seen them from $650 and up.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

A pad and rotor change would be the easiest route.

You are thinking of the cryo treatment.

[Track Junky]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

A pad and rotor change would be the easiest route.

Time will tell Vince. The bigger Hoosiers up front with a good set of pads and rotors are going to tax the front end quite a bit........hubs, bearings, and control arm bushings are the first things that come to mind.

Yup. Cryo treatmeant.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Time will tell Vince. The bigger Hoosiers up front with a good set of pads and rotors are going to tax the front end quite a bit........hubs, bearings, and control arm bushings are the first things that come to mind.

Yup. Cryo treatmeant.

You'll be "Cryo" after Sonoma - but I digress (Gaetano - that means I'm off subject)...



When I heard the ratings on the various BEARINGS (wheel) I was shocked! My little bearings are good for like 950 -- and with some calculating Ron thinks I'm probably hammering with 1100 or 1200.... and the big race bearings we'll switch to will handle 1800ish


So I can't remember what the numbers represented... torque or what... I just remember that my little bitty bearings aren't good for the pressures we're running at.

It's kinda like the oil pan for the Lotus --- once we put sticky tires on it - I had to get an oil pan with baffling! With the poopie tires you couldn't corner hard enough to cause the oil to climb.

Well --- I'm thinking you're in that situation with the brakes Gaetano --- now you're running Hoosiers... big fat ones I might add (building evidence for later if his times are better than mine! LOL) you're cornering entry speeds can handle more -- and you'll be able to brake harder later... and you're going to run into that bearing load issue with those HUGE by WIDE big FAT super sticky Hoosiers (remember this conversation guys!).

[Track Junky]

Agreed. I have been looking into hubs and bearings also. The two brands that seem to come up are SKF and Timken. I will keep them in mind and at the same time plant the seed in Vinces head so that he can help me make a good decision based on what will apply to my existing set up. We'll also keep this season light with just 3 events in anticipation of making it to next season with the addition of Ronnie and Dave to the group.

[GregWeld]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Agreed. I have been looking into hubs and bearings also. The two brands that seem to come up are SKF and Timken. I will keep them in mind and at the same time plant the seed in Vinces head so that he can help me make a good decision based on what will apply to my existing set up. We'll also keep this season light with just 3 events in anticipation of making it to next season with the addition of Ronnie and Dave to the group.

Do either one have a car? Been so long I've forgotten....

[Vince@Meanstreets]

We know which direction we need to go...its just what we can do within his budget. I can only eat so much.

The Hoosiers were a surprise to me. That wasn't supposed to happen till after this season.

Spindles, steering arms, bearings and suspension bushings are on the check list.

stay tuned as we will all be doing our homework.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by Track Junky

Agreed. I have been looking into hubs and bearings also. The two brands that seem to come up are SKF and Timken. I will keep them in mind and at the same time plant the seed in Vinces head so that he can help me make a good decision based on what will apply to my existing set up. We'll also keep this season light with just 3 events in anticipation of making it to next season with the addition of Ronnie and Dave to the group.

Not really the brand as much as maintenence, grease, pre load and inspection I feel is more important.

Each time your car comes in after a track event it goes up on the rack and the hubs are pre checked for free play, then torn down, the grease, bearings, races and spindle shafts are inspected. Its part of my Track-Pak inspection.

As of last inspection everything looked good.

Grease, We look for grease blow out, cook off and general condition.
Bearings and races we look for discoloration and pitting.
Spindle shaft we look for cracking, discoloration and galling.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

You'll be "Cryo" after Sonoma - but I digress (Gaetano - that means I'm off subject)...



When I heard the ratings on the various BEARINGS (wheel) I was shocked! My little bearings are good for like 950 -- and with some calculating Ron thinks I'm probably hammering with 1100 or 1200.... and the big race bearings we'll switch to will handle 1800ish


So I can't remember what the numbers represented... torque or what... I just remember that my little bitty bearings aren't good for the pressures we're running at.

It's kinda like the oil pan for the Lotus --- once we put sticky tires on it - I had to get an oil pan with baffling! With the poopie tires you couldn't corner hard enough to cause the oil to climb.

Well --- I'm thinking you're in that situation with the brakes Gaetano --- now you're running Hoosiers... big fat ones I might add (building evidence for later if his times are better than mine! LOL) you're cornering entry speeds can handle more -- and you'll be able to brake harder later... and you're going to run into that bearing load issue with those HUGE by WIDE big FAT super sticky Hoosiers (remember this conversation guys!).

The GM outer bearings are just tiny, I remember a thread with forces listed. I cannot find it now. I believe it was when Pozzi was addressing the short spindle failures.


Greg, I remember the thread and Rons listing for brake forces. I think it was Rons thread.