Poll: LS3 or LS7 vs. GM Crate Ram Jet 502

[tyoneal]

[QUOTE=Stang's Bane;152646]So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand. And it will cost you about $16-$17k in the end.

FWIW, lets look at this.

high compression ls7 short block (multiple sources) ~$6200
Stock LS7 heads with GOOD springs ~$3K
Stock LS7 intake $300
Custom cam ~$400
Other parts (covers, lifters, misc bolts, etc) $1500

$11500 and you have an easy 620-640 NA hp.
========================
Stangs Bang:

You mentioned $11500 and you have 620 hp.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/MMS11...rnKeyWECM.aspx

Scoggin Dickey sells this with 620 hp!, "Turn Key" for $14,000 or $2500 more money.

Can you buy all this for $11,500?

The LS3 427’s heart and soul is the new 4.065 aluminum block. The LS3 designation has a Mast Motorsports engineered camshaft that is custom ground on a Mast Motorsports LS3 cam core. The 427 foundation is a honed and decked LS3 aluminum block with a forged Callies rotating assembly with Mahle pistons that is topped off with Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 heads and a LS3 intake manifold. ARP fasteners are used throughout and Manley pushrods ride on LS3 hydraulic roller lifters. The LS3 427 is the first release of a diverse line of Mast Motorsports 427 Turnkey Crate Engines that are designed for Marine, Muscle Car, Off Road, and Sand Car markets. The LS3 427 HO has a decent lope at idle and peaks at the 620+ horsepower mark. The powerful fuel injected turnkey crate engine is tuned for the street to run on 93 octane and includes an ECM and wiring harness with knock control to adjust timing if 87 octane fuel is used.

Specs:
Type: LS3 7.0L
Displacement: 427 Cubic Inches
Compression Ratio: 10.8:1
Bore x Stroke: 4.070 x 4.100
Rev Limit: 7000 RPM
Crank: Callies
Rods: Callies
Pistons: Mahle Motorsports
Cam: Mast LS7 Core Custom Cam
Heads: Mast CNC LS3/L92 Heads
Intake: GMPP L76/L92 Intake
Valve Springs: Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive


LS3 Aluminum Block
Plateau Honed to 4.070
True Surfaced Deck
Engine Block Deburred
Blueprinted Shortblock
GM Car Harmonic Damper
ACL Rod and Crank Bearings
Callies 4.100 Stroked Crankshaft
Callies Compstar Connecting Rods
Custom Mahle Motorsports Pistons
Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 Cylinder Heads
ARP Head Bolts
ARP Main Studs
Cometic Head Gaskets
Mast LS3 Core Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
LS3 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Manley 1 Piece Chrome Molly Pushrods
Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive Valve Springs
M-90 Calibrated ECM
Main Wiring Harness
Dash Harness
Air Mass Harness
Trans Harness
EGO Harness
Bosch EGO Sensor
Fuel Pump Harness
Fan Harness
LS3 Intake
GM 90mm DBW Throttle Body
Bosch Dead Headed Fuel Rail
Bosch LS3 Fuel Injectors
Mast 8 Layer Air Filter with IAT Bung
Intake Air Temperature Sensor 560-2218 | info@
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Oil Pressure Sensor
Oil Temperature Sensor
Engine Coolant Temperature
Engine Knock Sensors
Manifold Air Pressure Sensor
Ignition Coils
Spark Plugs
Plug Wires
GM Foot Pedal
GM Starter
Car Water Pump
LS3 Oil Pan
GM Oil Filter
Mobile 1 Synthetic Oil
Engine Break in Oil Additive

I only bring this up as it looks like a Heck of a deal for the money And SD would be stupid to put it out if it was a POS.

No Argument here, just looking for the sweetest deal.
======================
If an inter-cooled Magna Charger was used?

An increase of 40% is not out of the question with the $10,100 550 hp, Engine. Thus, 770 Hp for the Price of a LS7 (Roughly)

Your Quote:
"So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand."

BTW: Maganacharger says:

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/pr02.htm

FAQ:
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/faq.htm

"Should the compression ratio be set at 8:1 like my last blower motor? The deciding factor when building a blower motor is to decide how much boost you plan on running, and what type of gas you will use. Compression tolerance (the amount of compression gas will take before detonation) of 91-octane is 13.5:1. This is just a rule of thumb (there are other factors to consider). In theory, if you run 9:1 compression then the max boost you would want to run is 8 lbs (every pound of boost is 2 CR). On Gen 3 motors we have found that the configuration of the motors is much more forgiving that on a typical 10:1 motor and you can get away with even more boost. These are static compression numbers only. Cam choice has an even bigger determination on what you can get away with........... Most Magna Charger supercharger kits are available with intercoolers. An intercooler reduces the discharge temperature of the compressed air from the supercharger. Physics, in this case Boyles Law, states that when air is compressed it gets hotter. A rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees that you can reduce the temperature, a 1% power increase can be gained. Even more efficiency is available!

I don't think there is ONE perfect answer, however for between 10K-20K You can build a Hell of a nice Street Friendly Engine.

Ain't life Grand.

TY

[Stang's Bane]

[QUOTE=tyoneal;152759]

Originally Posted by Stang's Bane

So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand. And it will cost you about $16-$17k in the end.

FWIW, lets look at this.

high compression ls7 short block (multiple sources) ~$6200
Stock LS7 heads with GOOD springs ~$3K
Stock LS7 intake $300
Custom cam ~$400
Other parts (covers, lifters, misc bolts, etc) $1500

$11500 and you have an easy 620-640 NA hp.
========================
Stangs Bang:

You mentioned $11500 and you have 620 hp.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/MMS11...rnKeyWECM.aspx

Scoggin Dickey sells this with 620 hp!, "Turn Key" for $14,000 or $2500 more money.

Can you buy all this for $11,500?

The LS3 427’s heart and soul is the new 4.065 aluminum block. The LS3 designation has a Mast Motorsports engineered camshaft that is custom ground on a Mast Motorsports LS3 cam core. The 427 foundation is a honed and decked LS3 aluminum block with a forged Callies rotating assembly with Mahle pistons that is topped off with Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 heads and a LS3 intake manifold. ARP fasteners are used throughout and Manley pushrods ride on LS3 hydraulic roller lifters. The LS3 427 is the first release of a diverse line of Mast Motorsports 427 Turnkey Crate Engines that are designed for Marine, Muscle Car, Off Road, and Sand Car markets. The LS3 427 HO has a decent lope at idle and peaks at the 620+ horsepower mark. The powerful fuel injected turnkey crate engine is tuned for the street to run on 93 octane and includes an ECM and wiring harness with knock control to adjust timing if 87 octane fuel is used.

Specs:
Type: LS3 7.0L
Displacement: 427 Cubic Inches
Compression Ratio: 10.8:1
Bore x Stroke: 4.070 x 4.100
Rev Limit: 7000 RPM
Crank: Callies
Rods: Callies
Pistons: Mahle Motorsports
Cam: Mast LS7 Core Custom Cam
Heads: Mast CNC LS3/L92 Heads
Intake: GMPP L76/L92 Intake
Valve Springs: Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive


LS3 Aluminum Block
Plateau Honed to 4.070
True Surfaced Deck
Engine Block Deburred
Blueprinted Shortblock
GM Car Harmonic Damper
ACL Rod and Crank Bearings
Callies 4.100 Stroked Crankshaft
Callies Compstar Connecting Rods
Custom Mahle Motorsports Pistons
Mast Motorsports CNC LS3/L92 Cylinder Heads
ARP Head Bolts
ARP Main Studs
Cometic Head Gaskets
Mast LS3 Core Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
LS3 Hydraulic Roller Lifters
Manley 1 Piece Chrome Molly Pushrods
Pac 1518 Nitrided Beehive Valve Springs
M-90 Calibrated ECM
Main Wiring Harness
Dash Harness
Air Mass Harness
Trans Harness
EGO Harness
Bosch EGO Sensor
Fuel Pump Harness
Fan Harness
LS3 Intake
GM 90mm DBW Throttle Body
Bosch Dead Headed Fuel Rail
Bosch LS3 Fuel Injectors
Mast 8 Layer Air Filter with IAT Bung
Intake Air Temperature Sensor 560-2218 | info@
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Oil Pressure Sensor
Oil Temperature Sensor
Engine Coolant Temperature
Engine Knock Sensors
Manifold Air Pressure Sensor
Ignition Coils
Spark Plugs
Plug Wires
GM Foot Pedal
GM Starter
Car Water Pump
LS3 Oil Pan
GM Oil Filter
Mobile 1 Synthetic Oil
Engine Break in Oil Additive

I only bring this up as it looks like a Heck of a deal for the money And SD would be stupid to put it out if it was a POS.

No Argument here, just looking for the sweetest deal.
======================
If an inter-cooled Magna Charger was used?

An increase of 40% is not out of the question with the $10,100 550 hp, Engine. Thus, 770 Hp for the Price of a LS7 (Roughly)

Your Quote:
"So you are going to boost a 10.7:1 motor that hard?? Better have a good supply of race gas on hand."

BTW: Maganacharger says:

http://www.magnusonproducts.com/pr02.htm

FAQ:
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/faq.htm

"Should the compression ratio be set at 8:1 like my last blower motor? The deciding factor when building a blower motor is to decide how much boost you plan on running, and what type of gas you will use. Compression tolerance (the amount of compression gas will take before detonation) of 91-octane is 13.5:1. This is just a rule of thumb (there are other factors to consider). In theory, if you run 9:1 compression then the max boost you would want to run is 8 lbs (every pound of boost is 2 CR). On Gen 3 motors we have found that the configuration of the motors is much more forgiving that on a typical 10:1 motor and you can get away with even more boost. These are static compression numbers only. Cam choice has an even bigger determination on what you can get away with........... Most Magna Charger supercharger kits are available with intercoolers. An intercooler reduces the discharge temperature of the compressed air from the supercharger. Physics, in this case Boyles Law, states that when air is compressed it gets hotter. A rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees that you can reduce the temperature, a 1% power increase can be gained. Even more efficiency is available!

I don't think there is ONE perfect answer, however for between 10K-20K You can build a Hell of a nice Street Friendly Engine.

Ain't life Grand.

TY

Can't argue with anything you said, choices are what makes it great. However SD does sell TSP stuff and I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole. Just me personally though

[tyoneal]

[QUOTE=Stang's Bane;152761]

Originally Posted by tyoneal

Can't argue with anything you said, choices are what makes it great. However SD does sell TSP stuff and I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole. Just me personally though

Why do their products suck??

I've always heard good things about them.

Please let meknw.

Thanks,

Ty

[Stang's Bane]

[QUOTE=tyoneal;153346]

Originally Posted by Stang's Bane

Why do their products suck??

I've always heard good things about them.

Please let meknw.

Thanks,

Ty

Well, IMO they sacrifice quality for quantity if you know what I mean. If you take some of theor stuff (heads) and add up the cost for the components, there is little to no room for labor cost. Personally I just don't trust them. Like I said, this is my personal opinion. I know there are probably 20 people on here that have their stuff and love it. I can find you 10 that are not so happy though. And it is not from performance, it is from QC.

[tones2SS]

I agree you cannot go wrong with either option of LS engine, the LS3 or LS7. I was looking into a LS7 427 for awhile, but knowing about the LS3 and adding some slight mods for more power than a LS7, made me think a little about saving the extra cash and dumping it in maybe suspension or paint??
Great debate and hearing other people's opinions/own experiences with things.

[deuce_454]

Ok this thread is spiralling out of controll... first of all: has the thread strater bought an engine yet???? , in wich case all of this is a mute point! and why are we into forced induction?? the thread topic was "LS3, LS7 or GM-502... not whipplecharger or twin turbos...... im all for this kind of discussion and its nice to hear what prople think is the best solution, but it has to be the best solution for some particular person.. otherwise the "best" will be some nelson racing engines gazillion dollar trannymuncher-thing or 800 cube sonnys-hemiheaded mountainmotor for that matter... or a stack injected reher.morrison 500 cube prostock engine built for pump gas... get my point?

and while we are on the topic of whipplechragers and twinscrew´s i have to say the best twinscrew is this one: www.miltontwins.com NSFW!!

[Stang's Bane]

Originally Posted by Sparky67

Sorry, you can't run boost off LS3 based 427 based off the 4.1" crankshaft. The reason being that the pin is moved up higher into the piston to the point where the crown is getting too thin to comfortably handle the extra pressure. Has it been done? Yes. But the longevity/durability of that setup is definitely decreased! Even Mast Motorsports doesn't recommend boost be run on the LS3 Based 427 based off the 4.1" crankshaft.

The better option is to build a LS3 416 based off the 4" crankshaft.

Jeff

http://www.kodakgallery.com/67rscamaro

Very, very true. I completely forgot about that.

[markd]

Originally Posted by deuce_454

Ok this thread is spiralling out of controll... first of all: has the thread strater bought an engine yet???? , in wich case all of this is a mute point! and why are we into forced induction?? the thread topic was "LS3, LS7 or GM-502... not whipplecharger or twin turbos...... im all for this kind of discussion and its nice to hear what prople think is the best solution, but it has to be the best solution for some particular person.. otherwise the "best" will be some nelson racing engines gazillion dollar trannymuncher-thing or 800 cube sonnys-hemiheaded mountainmotor for that matter... or a stack injected reher.morrison 500 cube prostock engine built for pump gas... get my point?

and while we are on the topic of whipplechragers and twinscrew´s i have to say the best twinscrew is this one: www.miltontwins.com NSFW!!

I have not bought an engine yet! I am just sitting back reading the responses and trying to figure it all out! I want to thank everyone for their comments…I have learned a lot and the debate continues…

[JETSET700]

Bottom line is if your are trying yo make your car handle well
(This is Lateral-G.net) not "Modern Pro Street.org" then you
have to get weight out of the bow of your boat.

A small block with aluminum heads is as heavy as you want to be going.
A 502 is cool for some but heavy.

I went LS7 for cubes and less weight.

Peter

[Stuart Adams]

I've actually had 2 of the motors in a camaro. The LS7 is by far the best, not even close. No BS. Like a Yugo and a Ferrari - seriously. Mileage, weight, reliability, no overheating iussues, power, resale, all favor the LS7.