Your views on guns.

[hp2]

Originally Posted by Vince@MSperfab

yeah, this isn't the wild west and we arent cowboys anymore.

Even the old west wasn't the old west. Despite the Hollywood image and romantic stories to the contrary, most old west towns had lower per capita murder rates than any modern city.

[garickman]

Originally Posted by camcojb

In California George did it by the book, at least as far as the shooting part if you believe Trayvon was on top of George and hitting his head on the ground. Here if an unarmed guy is attacking you, you cannot pull your gun and shoot him. Now if he has you on the ground and picks up a brick to smash your head in (or is pounding your head into the concrete) THEN you can draw your weapon and shoot. I guess they assume that because the guy is unarmed he won't knock you out before grabbing an object to smash you with........ You have to wait until the instant before he kills or mains you to pull the gun.

Now if you're 80 years old, or if he has a weapon of some sort all that changes. If you're a normal able-bodied person you have to take a few punches I guess and hope he quits or doesn't incapacitate you.

I am not so sure that George Zimmerman did it by the book because I don't have all the facts. I am pretty sure the police officers investigating this incident don't have all the facts either because one party is dead. I am not for or against George Zimmerman just as I am not for or against Trayvon Martin. It is very likely that Mr. Zimmerman approached this kid and simply asked him a question and Trayvon attacked him without provocation. If George Zimmerman felt his life was in danger than he was certainly justified in defending himself. However, with out knowing all the facts it is just as likely that Mr. Zimmerman approached Trayvon and asked him the same question while opening is jacket and displaying a firearm in his waistband. If that was the case than Trayvon Martin would have be justified in attacking George Zimmerman to prevent him from pulling a gun which he perceived as a threat to his life.

The only reason I reference this case in my previous post is because I believe this. As a private citizen of the United States you have the right to make a citizen's arrest when you believe a crime is being committed. As a private citizen, you have the right to arm yourself to effect that arrest. However, you do not have the right to stop random people you believe are "suspicious". When you confront people for no other reason except that they are "suspicious" bad things can happen and in the this case bad things did happen. The reason I say Mr. Zimmerman used his gun wrong is not because of the fact that he felt he was defending his life with it. It is because I believe he used is gun as tool to feed his courage. I could be 100% wrong, but my gut tells me that if Mr. Zimmerman was not carrying a gun he never would have approached Trayvon Martin, a person he described in his own words as "much bigger than him and intimidating looking".

You don't have to pull your gun out and brandish it or shoot it to be using it wrong. If you believe you are responsible enough to carry a firearm in public and you allow that firearm to give you the courage to confront a situation you would not confront with out it, then you are using it wrong.

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by garickman

I am not so sure that George Zimmerman did it by the book because I don't have all the facts. I am pretty sure the police officers investigating this incident don't have all the facts either because one party is dead. I am not for or against George Zimmerman just as I am not for or against Trayvon Martin. It is very likely that Mr. Zimmerman approached this kid and simply asked him a question and Trayvon attacked him without provocation. If George Zimmerman felt his life was in danger than he was certainly justified in defending himself. However, with out knowing all the facts it is just as likely that Mr. Zimmerman approached Trayvon and asked him the same question while opening is jacket and displaying a firearm in his waistband. If that was the case than Trayvon Martin would have be justified in attacking George Zimmerman to prevent him from pulling a gun which he perceived as a threat to his life.

The only reason I reference this case in my previous post is because I believe this. As a private citizen of the United States you have the right to make a citizen's arrest when you believe a crime is being committed. As a private citizen, you have the right to arm yourself to effect that arrest. However, you do not have the right to stop random people you believe are "suspicious". When you confront people for no other reason except that they are "suspicious" bad things can happen and in the this case bad things did happen. The reason I say Mr. Zimmerman used his gun wrong is not because of the fact that he felt he was defending his life with it. It is because I believe he used is gun as tool to feed his courage. I could be 100% wrong, but my gut tells me that if Mr. Zimmerman was not carrying a gun he never would have approached Trayvon Martin, a person he described in his own words as "much bigger than him and intimidating looking".

You don't have to pull your gun out and brandish it or shoot it to be using it wrong. If you believe you are responsible enough to carry a firearm in public and you allow that firearm to give you the courage to confront a situation you would not confront with out it, than you are using it wrong.

I am not (and don't want to) debating how that event played out. But most everyone believes the ending to be as I described, which is what I was referring to. In my state you'd have to wait to that point to pull your gun. How they got to that point is certainly up for debate.

[garickman]

Originally Posted by camcojb

I am not (and don't want to) debating how that event played out. But most everyone believes the ending to be as I described, which is what I was referring to. In my state you'd have to wait to that point to pull your gun. How they got to that point is certainly up for debate.

No debate from me Jody. But in the famous words of Tom Cruise "It doesn't matter what I believe, it only matters what I can prove." And you have to give me some credit on the fact that I was able to implement a quote from A Few Good Men into this thread.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by hp2

Even the old west wasn't the old west. Despite the Hollywood image and romantic stories to the contrary, most old west towns had lower per capita murder rates than any modern city.

I wouldnt know the truth or if I did I probably couldn't handle the truth. Splitting hairs, how about justified shoots? Could be a lot of shovel ready killings and not quite murder.

[SuperSport]

Meanwhile back in The ol US of A.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...-shooting?lite

Get it together people!

[mexMan]

What a shame! That's exactly my point, Greg's right, we don't have the way to defend ourselves, at least not in a fair way. But at the same time, we are not ready to carry a gun. We are not trained, nor capable to handle a gun.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by mexMan

What a shame! That's exactly my point, Greg's right, we don't have the way to defend ourselves, at least not in a fair way. But at the same time, we are not ready to carry a gun. We are not trained, nor capable to handle a gun.

What is your idea of a person who is "trained and capable"?

[SuperSport]

Originally Posted by Spiffav8

What is your idea of a person who is "trained and capable"?

The reality is anyone can own/purchase a gun regardless if they are a responsible person or not. I support the Constitution but too many idiots own guns and soon the government will be forced to do something about it which is really sad. This is not they case of a few bad apples but too too many bad apples.
I made a point of living in Los Angeles in the late 80's/90's. I was in high school back then and went to many "high school" parties and witnessed way too many guns in the possession of teenagers. I am sorry but there are way too many guns in the streets of America. People make the point of owning weapons to defend themselves. I think of where these weapons end up and it is crazy.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by SuperSport

The reality is anyone can own/purchase a gun regardless if they are a responsible person or not. I support the Constitution but too many idiots own guns and soon the government will be forced to do something about it which is really sad. This is not they case of a few bad apples but too too many bad apples.
I made a point of living in Los Angeles in the late 80's/90's. I was in high school back then and went to many "high school" parties and witnessed way too many guns in the possession of teenagers. I am sorry but there are way too many guns in the streets of America. People make the point of owning weapons to defend themselves. I think of where these weapons end up and it is crazy.

A: You're not mexMan
B: You didn't answer the question
C: The 80's are gone
D: You live is Cali which has huge problems on numerous levels
E: The remainder of the country is very different and diverse.

Back up your statements/views with facts. Should be easy enough....right?