Your views on guns.

[Tony_SS]

If anyone's been paying attention to what happened in my state, its a good reason, if you're going to get a CCW, to get it in a state other than your own, that offer reciprocity in your state and many others.

Turns out our state govenor worked with the state police and DMV to collect data on all MO CCW holders and shared that info with federal agencies.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/g...7144d526e.html

This is the exact reason why I have an out of state permit, which is still legal in Mo. At the time your MO CCW was separate and not tied to your drivers license. Now that is not the case, if you have a CCW its tagged right on there. Tell me what does driving have to do with owning/carrying a gun?

Our governor was actually subpoenaed over the whole deal, this was a law he signed and has blatantly broke it... but that's how it goes when you have to ask for permission for rights. They are compromised.

[andrewb70]

Tony, you're probably already on a bunch of "lists." LOL

Andrew

[SuperSport]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Sorry Mex Man --- but the reason MEXICO is so F'd up with drug gangs etc killing off entire towns --- is because there's no citizens that can defend themselves....

The best defense is a great offense.... and in America --- the citizens would be kicking those sorry drug gangs asses if they came into town guns blazing...

You should have been living in Los Angeles in the late 80's early 90's.
I find it funny when there is a school shooting it is a big deal. But when kids get killed every day to gun fire in major cities, that is not really news.

[garickman]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

The best defense is a great offense.... and in America --- the citizens would be kicking those sorry drug gangs asses if they came into town guns blazing...

According to the FBI statistics, there are roughly 33,000 organized gangs in the United States with over 1.4 million members. They are responsible for 4,000 murders each year and 48% of all violent crime in America can be directly traced to gangs. By 2015 it is expected that the number of gang members will almost double to 2.5 million. We don't seem to be doing a very good job at kicking their asses.

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by garickman

According to the FBI statistics, there are roughly 33,000 organized gangs in the United States with over 1.4 million members. They are responsible for 4,000 murders each year and 48% of all violent crime in America can be directly traced to gangs. By 2015 it is expected that the number of gang members will almost double to 2.5 million. We don't seem to be doing a very good job at kicking their asses.

GR...what's the point you want to make? You seem to be holding back on saying something bigger. What is it?

[Spiffav8]

Originally Posted by SuperSport

You should have been living in Los Angeles in the late 80's early 90's.
I find it funny when there is a school shooting it is a big deal. But when kids get killed every day to gun fire in major cities, that is not really news.

Sadly it's not on the news. In my eyes these are signs of where political policy hasn't worked and those who made them don't want to be held accountable. These types of things should be on the news and the reasons for them happening should be examined and fixed. Change just the the sake of change isn't a good thing and sadly that's the way many of so called leaders think these days. Criminals can't be controlled by laws (laws with no real punishment) only good law abiding people can be controlled that way. There is a simple answer, but it's not very popular.

[Vince@Meanstreets]

Originally Posted by garickman

According to the FBI statistics, there are roughly 33,000 organized gangs in the United States with over 1.4 million members. They are responsible for 4,000 murders each year and 48% of all violent crime in America can be directly traced to gangs. By 2015 it is expected that the number of gang members will almost double to 2.5 million. We don't seem to be doing a very good job at kicking their asses.

yeah, this isn't the wild west and we arent cowboys anymore.

I remember when I was in Oakland, there was a rumor that gang members were keen on printing and would target them to access guns.

[GregWeld]

Well -- I think my broader point was missed.



In Mexico -- entire towns have been overrun with drug gangs - the citizens that try to intervene are gunned down or they just leave town.


What we have in America is gangs or gang bangers that are - for the most part - in certain areas of a town. They manage - nightly - to kill each other. But they're not taking over entire towns as they have been able to do in Mexico. The citizens are NOT armed in Mexico. I think - and it's purely MHO - that it can't happen - or can't happen as easily here because of the citizens that just might put up a fight if push came to shove.

[garickman]

Originally Posted by GregWeld

Well -- I think my broader point was missed.



In Mexico -- entire towns have been overrun with drug gangs - the citizens that try to intervene are gunned down or they just leave town.


What we have in America is gangs or gang bangers that are - for the most part - in certain areas of a town. They manage - nightly - to kill each other. But they're not taking over entire towns as they have been able to do in Mexico. The citizens are NOT armed in Mexico. I think - and it's purely MHO - that it can't happen - or can't happen as easily here because of the citizens that just might put up a fight if push came to shove.

Greg, I agree that what is happening in Mexico would probably never happen in the United States, but in those "certain areas" of a town where gang bangers have taken over there are still citizens who live trapped like prisoners in their own homes. For those people, they are living in Mexico.

In Oakland California last year, a one year old, a three old, a five year old and two nine year old children all died of gunshot wounds. Oakland had 11 different shooting incidents where more than 100 rounds were fired on city streets. In one of those incidents more than 170 rounds were fired from 5 different weapons. The only victims were an innocent lady driving to work who was killed and an innocent man waiting at the bus stop. For those people and the families of those innocent children, they are also living in Mexico.

The only point I am trying to make is something that most people overlook when they speak of citizen's arming themselves. If you take every city, county and state where carrying a firearm is permitted whether open or concealed, less than 12% of those citizens eligible in the entire United States actually apply for a permit. I would be willing to bet that of those 12%, more than half of those people do not carry a firearm 100% of the time. Also of those 12%, I am sure there is a small percentage who would either never use it if confronted with a situation or who would use wrong. (George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin)

[camcojb]

Originally Posted by garickman

I am sure there is a small percentage who would either never use it if confronted with a situation or who would use wrong. (George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin)

In California George did it by the book, at least as far as the shooting part if you believe Trayvon was on top of George and hitting his head on the ground. Here if an unarmed guy is attacking you, you cannot pull your gun and shoot him. Now if he has you on the ground and picks up a brick to smash your head in (or is pounding your head into the concrete) THEN you can draw your weapon and shoot. I guess they assume that because the guy is unarmed he won't knock you out before grabbing an object to smash you with........ You have to wait until the instant before he kills or mains you to pull the gun.

Now if you're 80 years old, or if he has a weapon of some sort all that changes. If you're a normal able-bodied person you have to take a few punches I guess and hope he quits or doesn't incapacitate you.